I saw a lot of these stars on the front of the old houses in West Virginia when I was there in October, enough to know they’ve got some local significance. I asked a young cashier at a CVS drugstore about them and she told me right away they were barn stars. Seeing my puzzled look (I was in town so only saw them on houses, not barns) she added, “They’re for good luck”. Then almost as an afterthought she said, “They’re primitive decor, Americana.” Searching them online I found they became popular in certain parts of the U.S. and Canada in the early nineteenth century and have their talismanic roots in paganism along with the hex signs found in the countryside there, most notably the Pennsylvania Dutch region. But in recent decades most locals appear to have dismissed them as merely decorative. The Amish don’t use them. Hex signs especially are described to outsiders as being just for looks, or “chust for nice” as they say.
To call her a “muse” may appear misleading. But she is a muse, although one meant in the original sense as an artistic inspiration. It’s not “muse” as the contemporary pop interpretation as an object of erotic fixation. Dr. Juli Crockett, wife/mom/political activist, would resist that vehemently.
Here is a transcript of the video interview from a couple of years ago or so at Pappy & Harriett’s in Pioneertown. The video is posted at the bottom of the page:
Juli: (unintelligible)
Rob: And now we’re back with Juli Crocket from the Evangenitals. And I’ve been wanting to ask you this for a long time– let’s like face the light so we can get the light better– okay, so she is a former professional boxer.
Juli: Undefeated.
Rob: Undefeated, you did like how many fights?
Juli: 3 and 0. (unintelligible) I was also the L.A. district champion and the national champion as an amateur.
Rob: Such a lovely face and you would never guess that she was like duking it out–
Juli: Good defense, good defense.
Rob: Yeah, really. [laughs] Um, but you were the inspiration for the Hillary Swank character in the movie Million Dollar Baby. And not a lot of people know that– I mean it’s been out there, but tell us–
Juli: Well the character was an amalgam of several things, it was a real story of a girl who was actually in like an ultimate fight championship who hit her head and became paralyzed, so he took that and then he took aspects of other people but a lot of the– some of the character aspects of– he said, her perseverance, that she started late, that she came from the south– I mean I didn’t have–
Rob: You came from Alabama right?
Juli: Yeah I was born in Alabama.
Rob: Where in Alabama?
Juli: In Coffee County Enterprise, Alabama.
Rob: Coffee County, okay.
Juli: But I did not have a super dysfunctional family or a crazy mom, or anything like that.
Rob: You didn’t grow up in a trailer park?
Juli: No, that was not my story. [smiles]
I was like a Ph.D. student when he met me, but I was also boxing.
Rob: Yeah, you came to L.A. and you told me one time that you were, that you could take two (unintelligible) at the time, you were in L.A. you said and you wanted to fit into the scene, you could either go to the gym and work out and start stripping or you could go to the gym and work out and become a boxer.
Juli: My background was in experimental theatre so I wanted to get my finger on the experimental theatre pulse of Los Angeles and the two most far away things from who I am as a person that I could think to do, because at the time I was this incredibly shy, overweight pasty theatre director from New York, so I was- my first idea was I’ll become a stripper because that would just be crazy! But I started training at the YMCA and took boxing lessons to get in shape and I had a trainer named Micky Jones who this amazing like, poet, prophet, storyteller, preacher, boxing coach– and he suggested that I take boxing seriously because I showed a lot of promise, so then I went to a gym and started training and went through the amateurs and had a really great amateur team and won a lot of awards and when I turned pro I started training with a man named Dub Huntley–
Rob: Who wrote the–
Juli: No, Dub Huntley was my trainer. The book of short stories is called Rope Burns that the Million Dollar Baby short story appears in, and it was written– the pen name is F.X. Toole but it was written by a man named Jerry Boyd, who was Dubs best friend. There’s actually a story in there called Black Jew, and that’s about Dub. And in the story of Million Dollar Baby, the characters in the movie would have been inverted because Dub, would be like the Morgan Freeman character, where he was this incredibly angel hearted old black man who trained you know, lots and lots of champions he was Lela Ali’s trainer in fact, as well. But he was actually the trainer, where in the movie Morgan Freeman was the cup man and Jerry was my cup man who he was– if you got cut he would be the first one to fix your eye, and was corner man and he would have been the Clint Eastwood character but he inverted the characters because he wanted to be the trainer.
Rob: Okay, so– this movie Million Dollar Baby has won an academy award for um–
Juli: I think it won best picture and I think Hillary Swank got best actress, I think!
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you never got mentioned! She didn’t thank you at the awards ceremony! [smiles at camera]
Juli: No, well what had happened was Jerry wrote the short story and then it was years later, I mean a couple years later I think it got option to be a motion picture and when they were starting to make the movie he had sent pictures of me, my fight tapes, and information about me to the producers. because he was like, “This is the girl, this is the Million Dollar Baby.”
And actually we were supposed to meet with them and there was talk of me actually being in the movie but um, I was prepping for a fight and I didn’t have time to meet and Jerry actually had a heart attack and ended up in a coma for three weeks and he died. So I mean, I just kind of went on boxing I retired from boxing I didn’t think anything of it. And then when the movie came out I hadn’t seen it yet, but all these people started calling me and they’re like, “Oh my god have you seen this movie, she’s like– she looks like and she wears her hair like you and she has the same shorts as you.”
Rob: All your friends were like, what’s going on?
Juli: Yeah, yeah, and then Dub even, my trainer, was like, “They must have had spies in the gym.”
Because there are conversations and lines of dialogue about the training which are literally conversations the Dub and I had.
Rob: Okay so this is great, so your trainer was the scriptwriter– now who was the scriptwriter?
Juli: Jerry, who was my corner man.
Rob: And he died?
Juli: He died.
Rob: He died of heart attack, okay. So in the movie, you were saying this before we started rolling video that the scriptwriter would have been corresponding to Clint Eastwood’s character, or?
Juli: The writer would have been Clint Eastwood’s character and my trainer would have been the cup man but those roles were inverted. Because in the movie Morgan Freeman isn’t the trainer. But in my life, the black dude was the trainer and the white dude was the corner man.
Rob: Okay, okay, wow.
Juli: And then it came out because when the movie was about to come out– or was up for an academy award and all that was going on and actually Sports Illustrated was doing a story about Million Dollar Baby and was interviewing my trainer, Dub, and I wasn’t even boxing anymore I had retired, I had started a band, I was doing other stuff.
Rob: And you were going to school. [looks into camera] She was a doctor!
Juli: A doctor of philosophy. Um, and they– Sports Illustrated called Dub and was like, as a throwaway last question, “Is there a real Million Dollar Baby?
And he says, “Yes, Juli. Everybody knows that.”
And I’m just– I’m sitting at work, I have a job at the time, I was working at the adult toy company.
Rob: Oh yeah, that’s right! The Stockroom. She was also in charge of like porn products at the Stock Room on Sunset Boulevard.
Juli: [laughing] And I’m just at work and all the sudden the phone starts ringing, I’m at work and suddenly it’s like Sports Illustrated is calling! And then it was like, U.S. news and then it was Extra, and then it was like Entertainment Weekly, and all these people started calling because they’re like, “Oh my god, there’s a real Million Dollar Baby!”
And at the time– I mean it’s funny because in hindsight I probably could have like played the situation a whole lot more but I just really downplayed it. Because I was like, “No, no, no, it’s fine.”
Rob: Too cool. Too cool.
Juli: I was just like, “No, no, no, I don’t want to talk about it.”
I mean for me it was all really tied up too because it was just so unfortunate that Jerry as a writer like–
Rob: Right after he died, yeah.
Juli: Right when his work was finally getting that kind of acclaim and attention and it was getting turned into a movie and it was just so– I mean it’s wonderful that his work is going to be carried on in that way. And we used to argue about the story all the time because I personally hated it. I thought that it was– I did not like the storyline. Because he was very much against women boxing and that whole story is his justification for why women shouldn’t fight. And it’s all about him! It’s all about– he’s gonna meet a girl and then he’s gonna care and somethings going to happen to her and he’s going to have to kill her and his Irish Catholic self is gonna go to hell because he had to like help somebody do an assisted suicide.
Rob: Wow.
Juli: And I found it so unfair that it couldn’t be a story like a Rocky, or any other story where it was like actually a woman in charge of her own destiny.
Rob: So it’s pretty sexist.
Juli: It is! Because in the story I mean he says whether she can train or not, he says whether she can fight or not, and he says whether she can live or die. And I was like, “That’s bullshit.”
Rob: Yeah, I mean, you’ve lived that life. You were undefeated. You’re a scholar now, you’re a doctor, you’re a mom, you’re a homeowner in Los Angelos. You’ve got a good band and everything.
Juli: Yeah and it’s like the big compliment in boxing when you’re accomplished as a woman is that you fight like a man.
Rob: Well– what’s your take on that.
Juli: [smiling] Well I think I understand the sentiment but I also understand that that sentiment has to change, I mean there was just that great video with Serena Williams about like, playing tennis like a woman. [laughs] Where it’s like I think we’re moving beyond the point where it’s like people have to express that they can be completely capable athletes regardless of gender.
Rob: Didn’t something happen like 2012 or 2013 right before Ronda Rousey got big– Oh, the Olympics! Women can fight in the Olympics now, is that right?
Juli: Yeah, that was a recent addition.
Rob: And you’re probably a part of that whole revolution, I bet.
Juli: I mean a lot of the women are, yeah.
Rob: I mean you were a part of the whole step towards it.
Juli: It’s amazing. And now a woman can even be president, What!
Rob: Oh yeah, that’s right. Hillary might make it to the white house.
Juli: It’s a good time to be a woman.
Rob: Well thank you, Juli, I’ll let you get back to your fans.
[Rob and Juli hug]
Juli: Oh yeah we’re gonna play, Yay!!!!
Rob: We’ll talk to you soon.
It’s hard to tell what is in store politically for the stock market. If it wasn’t then the potential return wouldn’t be nearly as great. But it can be made even more mysterious by all the arcane and arbitrary rules imposed.
The message said ‘a good faith violation has occurred’ and threatened what could only be described as punitive measures if the instigating behavior continued. Upon closer reading it could mean that a violation was committed but it was, however, made innocently, in “good faith”. Or maybe it meant what it looked like it meant at first glance, that a violation was committed and it was a breach of good faith, or, more to the point, made it was a violation made in BAD FAITH. Either way I didn’t like the sound of it.
I had been trading stocks in my Chase You Invest account. You Invest is a new feature offered last summer by J.P. Morgan Chase Bank for personal account investors to make stock trades at inexpensive fees, $2.95 per trade. I guess I had been trading too quickly and not waiting the two days it takes for a sale to resolve. But each time I made a sale of one block of stocks the money from it appeared in my sweeps fund column so I went ahead and bought something else that looked interesting. This is where the problem was: the sale of the stocks takes two days to arrive in my account, the person at the Help Desk line told me, and using it for a purchase is against the rules. SO WHY DID THE MONEY APPEAR IN MY ACCOUNT IMMEDIATELY THEN? Was it a glitch in the system, a mistake? The Help Desk line supervisor told me it was “on” Chase, meaning it was their fault, their mistake. Okay then why did I get this threatening message in my inbox accusing me of a good faith violation, was I baited, was it a cruel joke, a scam setting me up for a future fine or something? Here’s the message:
‘Please be advised a good faith violation has occurred in the above referenced account. A good faith violation occurs when you purchase a security with unsettled funds and then sell the security prior to the settlement of those funds. If this occurs within the account three times in a calendar year, a 90-day restriction will be placed on your account. During the 90-day period, you will only be able to trade with settled funds or deposited cash. Trade orders will not be processed if the account has insufficient cash available to place the trade. During the 90-day restriction, you will only be able to place limit orders; you will be unable to place market orders. The restriction will be removed automatically after 90 calendar days.’
Book for sale: Lisa Cerver’s SUCKDOG — A RUCKUS, signed and in like new condition, $15.99 plus postage and handling
Brand new, shiny, unread and signed copies of SUCKDOG — A RUCKUS by Lisa Carber are for sale here. Email me, robertrowsey@gmail.com, or send $15.99 plus $5 postage and handling by Paypal.
SUCKDOG — A RUCKUS, by Lisa Carver, signed and in great, like new condition, $15.99 plus $5 postage and handling.[/caption]
So now I need a telephoto that’s autofocus, at least 600mm, maybe 800 or even 1000mm. Here’s a pic I shot this morning of some dude at the Shores goofing around in the small surf on his longboard. He started out surfing it regularfoot but then dropped down to a seated Quasimoto or whatever. I broke out the old Sigma analog 600 f4 and set up with the tripod on the concrete boardwalk. In doing this I quickly discovered — I need to get a modern telephoto lens if I’m going to do any action sports photography. Unlike the shoot at Windansea last week with my Tamron 200 which had plenty of “tack sharp” crispness, these pics were all hit-and-miss. This shot was among the as-good-as-it-gets cetegory:
La Jolla Shores, 11-6-18.
In the early 80’s I was out of high school and toying with the idea of contributing to the at that time many surfing magazines being published. Actually in the US there was only Ing, Out, and Er — which were Surfing Magazine, Breakout Magazine, and Surfer Magazine. George Salvadore, who was the editor at the Carlsbad-based Breakout Magazine at the time told me the formula for shooting surfing. It was this: use ASA 64 Kodachrome “Red” slide film, and shoot f4 at 250th of a second or faster. That was it. Today the technology’s improved so much you can shoot at a much higher ISO and stopped down for a larger depth of field and still get good results. But that’s what you had to do back then.
I do like my antique glass though. I’ll hang on to my 40 year-old Sigma monster 600. You can’t turn that tight focusing collar fast enough to stay on a rider but boy does it look impressive mounted on a ‘pod.
Fashion Week SD’s Allison Andrews in a Reviewer TV interview
What follows is the transcript for a nearly one-hour sit down between Allison Andrews and Robert Rowsey of Reviewer TV. Some parts were data-entried as “Unintelligible” but you can check the actual video for clarity (it’s 55:41) HERE or where it’s embedded at the bottom of the post. You’ve never met a person more passionate about fashion than Allison. ~Editor
Allison Andrews, photo Robert Rowsey.
Rob: It’s Reviewer TV, we’re here with Allison Andrews, Allison Andrews from San Diego fashion week.
[Allison smiles and nods]
Rob: How ya doing?
Allison: Good, how are you?
Rob: Good, good, thanks for meeting.
[Allison laughs]
Rob: I understand you just recently had your 10th anniversary San Diego fashion week.
Allison: (nodding) Mhmm.
Rob: And it looked huge, I didn’t attend but I should have because I saw it on Facebook and it looked like just a huge gala downtown at the San Diego harbor, uh, where was it exactly this year?
Allison: So, we had our locations we had (unintelligible) events and they were all around San Diego downtown (unintelligible) but our main runway shows, the iconic runway shows for fashion week were at The Broadway Pier here, and that’s our favorite venue. it’s Ideal for the type of production we put on.
Rob: It’s a big, big place, it’s like ship hangar or something?
Allison: It’s a crew ship terminal, yes. It’s massive.
Rob: Wow, yeah.
Allison: It’s– our runway is over 100 feet long it sits thousands of people, I mean about 3,000 come through each night.
Rob: Really?
Allison: Yeah, it was incredible. (smiling) And that’s actually not one of our biggest years, we’ve had more in the past– in attendees– but still–
Rob: (Unintelligible)
Allison: At that venue, yeah.
Rob: Okay, okay– And, um, how many designers did you have and how many models do you have typically? This year and then–
Allison: So, this year, (unintelligible), I know we talked about that earlier, like, we’ve ended up having 128 models.
Rob: Okay, okay.
Allison: Yeah (smiling) Which is a lot of bodies, just to think about that backstage.
Rob: And you organize everything?
Allison: Everything. (nodding) Start to finish. You know, making sure there’s toilet paper to stirrers for the cocktails to the actual–
Rob: All the essentials.
Allison: (waves hand in a sweeping motion) –The garments that went down the runway, yeah.
Everything.
Rob: How do you find designers?
Allison: They find us! Which is nice at this point, we have an application which is live right now, so if you are an aspiring designer, or want to be part of a traditional fashion week you fill out the paper application, and then we review it.
Rob: At the website?
Allison: On the website, just a PDF, fill it out, e-mail it back, scan it back, whatever you need to do to get it to us, you can even snail mail it if you have to, and then we review it, and then from there we will schedule a phone interview and then usually after the phone interview the last part is meeting with the whole team for like a face-to-face interview and then we make our selection.
Rob: And are they mostly from the San Diego area?
Allison: You know what was really thrilling this year was almost every single one of our designers was from San Diego originally, they might have moved to Los Angeles– there was two of them in the case that San Diego was their home city and their family and they’re tied very deeply here, so if you count those two that are L.A. based businesses currently, but originated in San Diego, then everybody that showed this year was from San Diego which is really incredible.
Rob: How many designers did you say you had?
Allison: Twenty-one.
Rob: Twenty-one, okay, how many of those out of that were from San Diego?
Allison: Uh, it would have been nineteen! [smiles]
Rob: Nineteen, okay.
Allison: That are based and working, but every single one of them, even the two that are based in Los Angeles right now, they were born and raised in San Diego, and have family here so– technically they’re all San Diegans.
Rob: And you’re from Orange County, right?
Allison: I’m originally from Orange County yes.
Rob: What brought you down here to start fashion week here? What brought you down here to San Diego and made you want to do it in San Diego, other than being here?
Allison: Yeah, no I mean growing up in Orange County, I hated it, I hated growing up in Orange County–
Rob: You’re not a beach girl?
Allison: It’s not that! I love the beach, I still live by the beach, I would die if I wasn’t next to the ocean. You know it’s funny I’m not a surfer girl but I’ve never not lived by the water, I love the water, it’s so calming. It’s my place. But, um, no I hated orange county because there’s no center of downtown, there’s no center of commerce, so you don’t have that influx of um– cultures.
Rob: What city were you in?
Allison: I was in Huntington Beach.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: But there was no central downtown, I mean, people–
Rob: Not even on main street?
Allison: No, I mean well there’s main street Huntington, but I mean like, downtown San Diego; Downtown Los Angeles; Downtown San Francisco; Downtown Manhattan; Chicago– most cities have a hub, and that’s where you get a mix of cultures, and business and creative arts, and um, a wide body of people that bring their influences and their personal take on life and when you don’t have that you get very much a divided culture and you get a very (sub-population?) of the culture and that’s what Orange County is. We used to joke that if you were you know, west of the 405 it was like wonder bread white and if you were east of the 405 depending on which area you were little Saigon or Tijuana. And, I mean that’s terrible, you know? That wasn’t cool. I mean, I hated growing up there. I loved when I was a kid and we would go to L.A. or we would go to San Diego, I grew up coming to Encinitas a lot, which is hilarious, but now this is where I live. But, um, I loved coming down because you had more– I think more culture and more stimulation and I really thrived off of that, even young, I really enjoyed that. Um, I like eating wide varieties of food, I listen to extremely eclectic music. I am very– I consider myself very progressive and very open minded so I do well in that type of environment and I’m also very inspired by it. If everything’s the same it’s very boring to me.
Rob: [listening intently] Yeah.
Allison: You know, I get– lackluster, I need those (making passionate hang gestures) different influences to keep me stimulated.
Rob: Fashion is kind of good in that way in that it kind of blends different cultures, every scene, every trend is something new from– maybe different parts of the world or different influences that people have.
Allison: Oh my gosh [nodding] Their background, anything, yeah!
Rob: What is “fashion”? Like, if you could define fashion, let’s say– I was going to say 20 words or less but how about 10 words or less, What is “fashion”? I understand we’re going to get a little meta, but, um–
Allison: I know– see that’s the analytical side of me, I can either give you the lofty like spiritual side, or I can give you the analytical side– the first gut reaction that I have is it’s the worlds largest employer. That’s fashion.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: That’s the business side of it.
Rob: Okay, so it’s an industry.
Allison: It is, I mean or I can get very spiritual and lofty with you–
Rob: Sure.
Allison: –and say it’s an ideal.
Rob: Uh-huh.
Allison: Like, fashion is an ideal that you present to the world.
Rob: How so?
Allison: Of who you are, I mean literally it says who you are, you know from your accessories to your glasses to your watch to your shoes to your bag to your fanny pack to my purse, you know?
Rob: Right.
Allison: The coffee I’m holding in my hand! [raises cup] You know? All of it brands me as a human being and says and identifies to you, my likes, my interests, who I am and who I am not. I mean, think of high school; High school is the best example of that– You know those are your geeks [pointing], you know that’s the preppy kids, you know that’s your gothic kids, you know that’s your emo kids, you know that’s your surfer crew, that’s your jocks– and you do that from, basically aesthetics.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: Nobody has deep conversations with those people about what they love or what they don’t love, or what their views on life are. You’re totally judging them from their outer appearance.
Rob: What was your earliest experience of fashion? Like, going back into Allison’s childhood memory–
[Allison laughs]
Rob: What was your first awareness of, This is fashion, this is what I should look like or this is what I should wear, this is the label or brand that I should seek or ask my parents to buy me for Christmas or my birthday?
Allison: Yeah– [smiling and holding coffee cup]
Rob: What was your first impression?
Allison: I actually didn’t become a label whore, which the industry term–
Rob: (laughs)
Allison: I didn’t become a label whore–
Rob: It’s a “technical term”. [laughing]
Allison: It’s a technical term, it is, at this point. I didn’t become that way until actually much older, I’d say like the last 10 years, maybe 5 even. Honestly. Maybe 5. Um, but, as a kid– my first take on fashion, you know, I grew up with a single mom, we grew up in an apartment, so for me, I think it was just being able to fit in and be accepted by a wide variety of my peers. Where we grew up was a very affluent area of town, but we were far from affluent. So, I think just being able to blend in and be accepted was the most important thing, I remember one incident where I had to (unintelligible) backpack, you know, Target or whatever company at that time, whatever backpack my mom picked up for the school year.
Rob: You were judged for that.
Allison: And, yeah, it was a Jansport backpack and I will never forget it, and it like ruined my whole school year, I felt like I was like, such a loser because I didn’t have a stupid Jansport backpack. And you know the funny thing is I’m such a sentimental goofball, I still have that damn backpack once I got it, it was a black one, with like leather suede brim trim and it would actually be like super chic, if I pulled it out right now people would think I’m like super hip, hipster–
Rob: Very retro.
Allison: Yeah, it’s very cool. I still have that stupid thing, because it was so important as a kid, you know? But um, no–
Rob: I think mine was OP, I remember OP–
Allison: That was huge.
Rob: Because yeah, (unintelligible) back in maybe like the 7th grade, I think? Back in the late 70’s early– mid to late 70’s.
Allison: Yeah OP was a big brand for a long time, even in the 80’s they kept on going.
Rob: the new skateboard that we had to have — It was GS deck with uh, roadwide wheels and (unintelligible) trucks.
Allison: Oh, that’s funny. (smiling)
Rob: that was like The– and I scored that, my parents bought me that for Christmas.
Allison: That’s nice.
Rob: So I was like “whoooo–” (makes thumbs up gesture)
Allison: I remember when I got a gravity longboard and that was awesome because I could keep up with the boys because I could pump that thing like twice and I would go faster than them.
Rob: Strong legs!
Allison: Yeah, yeah, so that was cool.
Rob: Ha!
Allison: Yeah, so I was more on the skater side of Huntington Beach than the surfer side, so–
Rob: Oh okay–
Allison: Yeah.
Rob: (unintelligible)
Allison: That’s what it is, action sports, yeah.
Rob: What’s your favorite thing to uh relax now, other than (unintelligible) being at home in your sweatpants?
Allison: God, can’t beat that– um, I love to travel, and it doesn’t have to be amazing I just like to see the world and explore it so, even just a getaway like this weekend we went to Arrowhead and it was just lovely to be in the mountains and just have no WIFI and terrible cell service and just unplug and be in nature and hang out, I love to garden, I love to read, I love holding old books like I actually like to tangibly read, not just a kindle or something, and I never get to read anymore with a toddler and work so, that’s a definite treat to be able to read, and I like cooking, kind of like a domestic goddess with her garden, cooking, family–(laughs heartily)
Rob: A domestic goddess, huh?
Allison: (laughs) My husband might disagree with all of that. (laughs)
Rob: (unintelligible)
What about– you say you like to travel, what about different cities like Los Angeles, I saw on Facebook that you were in L.A. for recently for some sort of (unintelligible) party.
Allison: I did– Yeah. (nodding)
Rob: So are there any other fashion industry things that go on in L.A. or different cities that you kind of bring into play?
Allison: Yeah. I play to two of the biggest hubs in North America; Los Angeles and New York. I try to get to New York at least once a year, I’m lucky if I can do twice, but for sure once a year.
Rob: For what?
Allison: I try to go for their, uh, market season, not during their fashion week because it’s usually a couple weeks before mine–
Rob: Oh, yeah.
Allison: Because we’re a traditional fashion week so we all kind of hit the same time it usually goes, Paris– Milan– New York– Us– and then Los Angeles.
Rob: Is that because you’re all trying to sell fall at the same time?
Allison: Mhm. It’s the trends.
Rob: –to splurge the sales?
Allison: Yeah, so the fashion industry is going through a huge overhaul right now, um, and we’re all just trying to navigate it. But it used to be what would happen was you would show at the fashion week what was coming for the next season because then it would allow time for the retailers– the buyers, to see it presented on bodies, say, “Oh, I think that would look good in my store.”
Place the order. Then that designer or manufacturer would have time to make the garments, ship them to your store, and by the time they hit your store floor, that’s what’s ready for sale. It’s because– fashion is like bread, no one wants to buy stale bread, right? So you gotta bake it knowing that it’s gotta sell, it’s kind of like fashion works the same way.
Rob: [nodding]
Allison: So traditionally fashion weeks would work this way, we would see something– so if you saw it in the fall it would actually be for spring/summer. And when you go to a spring-summer show it would actually be for the fall merchandise.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: But now– with the internet and the general consumer behavior that we have in our current marketplace, which I love, I wouldn’t change it for the world I think it’s fantastic– um, people want it now. So, like a lot of what we saw this year at fashion week San Diego was actually garments for fall, ready to buy right then and there. There was no delay, so what you saw on the runway you could literally buy it that next– that Sunday, the last day of fashion week San Diego at our annual trunk show. So it’s interesting– some fashion weeks are still trying to showcase what’s to come but then they might piece in some accessories, or purses, or handbags, or watches, or belts that you could actually currently buy right then, they’re called immediates.
Rob: I guess in the industry– you were saying that the industry has been going through some upheaval and maybe you could elaborate on that, but um, I was thinking– is it because of the way fashion clothes are manufactured? Like, shoes aren’t made in Italy anymore– too much, like– clothes aren’t made in France, like their really high fashion stuff they ship out to Thailand, or Singapore, is that what you’re talking about?
Allison: No. It– it has nothing to do with that.
Rob: It’s not about cheap labor?
Allison: It’s not about cheap labor, it’s just the buyer it’s the consumer. Like, think about yourself right now if you see something and go, “Okay I want that.”
You can go on Amazon, and if you have Amazon Prime in 24 hours it’s going to be at your doorstep. So now imagine going to a fashion week having this consumer behavior and power that you’re now accustomed to as the consumer and now being told, “Oh you like that jacket you just bought? You have to wait 3 months.”
Rob: Mhm. [Nodding]
Allison: You’re gonna be like, “No, I’m gonna go find a knock-off version of it.”
Or, “No I’m gonna go find it somewhere else.”
So that’s what I’m saying. So now, instead of designers showing things that are meant to be coming they’re now having to kind of move that time scale up a lot quicker then what historically you would do as a best business practice, now those business practices are being changed because it’s 100 percent because of the consumer power. And also way back to your point about labor and manufacturing– yeah– that has affected some of the industry, like you’ll see brands that really promote their branding and their whole you know platform of the fact that they’re local now, and that they’re you know, um, organic, or fair trade, and that also has affected consumer behavior. I mean, I myself am vegan. I don’t eat GMO’s, I’m organic, I’m that freak in the grocery store, you know if it doesn’t have 20 labels on it that are all my type of labels I’m not buying it.
Rob: How long have you been vegan?
Allison: Uh, since I stopped breastfeeding my kids.
Rob: Oh, cool!
Allison: [laughs] uh-huh, yeah.
Rob: So I guess your kids not vegan then.
Allison: Uh-uh. No. [sips coffee]
Rob: So it’s been like– your child is pretty young–
Allison: Couple months. But prior to her– prior to her– she’s such a puppet master– prior to her, I was a vegetarian. I’d still eat cheese. I don’t eat much dairy but I love cheese. Like a really good cheese, I would love the cheese.
Rob: You never eat meat?
Allison: Um not my thing, even when I was a kid, just not my thing. I’d eat fish. I went from being a pescatarian to a vegetarian, I was vegetarian for about 15 plus years–
Rob: Okay.
Allison: Sometimes pescatarian depending what was going on, and then having the baby all I wanted was filet mignon and burgers and hot dogs and it was gross. [making disgusted face]
I couldn’t get enough of it.
Rob: Really?
Allison: my cholesterol was so high (unintelligible, something about life insurance with my baby)
Rob: Really?
Allison: Yes, yes, yes– because of all the meat I consumed while pregnant with her. It just shot my cholesterol through the roof.
Rob: Wow.
Allison: So anyways– long story short, that’s a fun, interesting personal fact about me but now the pendulum has swung and I’m completely vegan and I love it.
Rob: So you do know what it’s like to experience the satisfaction of meat–
Allison: Oh yeah.
Rob: Good meat, filet mignon, just having some– meat.
Allison: Oh yeah. And I appreciate culinary arts even if it’s something I wouldn’t eat I can respect the craftsmanship what went into it if it is something that is cared for and presented with that mentality.
Rob: Sure.
[Both smile and laugh]
Allison: But not my cup of tea! Literally.
Rob: What about the other aspects of the fashion business that you might be attracted to? Are you only involved or only want to be involved in show (unintelligible) or do you think you’ll ever get your own label, have you ever been working for a label before or designer?
Allison: Yeah, yeah yeah. So my parent company, my first business is APA business consulting and that actually owns fashion week San Diego and that consulting firm this month of November turns 14 years old, so I had it 4 years prior to even starting fashion week San Diego.
Rob: So that’s your (unintelligible) to the city?
Allison: That’s my– mhm– my baby. Um, it’s a corporation but I have no partners, it’s me, myself and I, but um–
Rob: You do have one employee though, you said right?
Rob: It’s Reviewer TV, we’re here with Allison Andrews, Allison Andrews from San Diego fashion week.
[Allison smiles and nods]
Rob: How ya doing?
Allison: Good, how are you?
Rob: Good, good, thanks for meeting.
[Allison laughs]
Rob: I understand you just recently had your 10th anniversary San Diego fashion week.
Allison: (nodding) Mhmm.
Rob: And it looked huge, I didn’t attend but I should have because I saw it on Facebook and it looked like just a huge gala downtown at the San Diego harbor, uh, where was it exactly this year?
Allison: So, we had our locations we had (unintelligible) events and they were all around San Diego downtown (unintelligible) but our main runway shows, the iconic runway shows for fashion week were at The Broadway Pier here, and that’s our favorite venue. it’s Ideal for the type of production we put on.
Rob: It’s a big, big place, it’s like ship hangar or something?
Allison: It’s a crew ship terminal, yes. It’s massive.
Rob: Wow, yeah.
Allison: It’s– our runway is over 100 feet long it sits thousands of people, I mean about 3,000 come through each night.
Rob: Really?
Allison: Yeah, it was incredible. (smiling) And that’s actually not one of our biggest years, we’ve had more in the past– in attendees– but still–
Rob: (Unintelligible)
Allison: At that venue, yeah.
Rob: Okay, okay– And, um, how many designers did you have and how many models do you have typically? This year and then–
Allison: So, this year, (unintelligible), I know we talked about that earlier, like, we’ve ended up having 128 models.
Rob: Okay, okay.
Allison: Yeah (smiling) Which is a lot of bodies, just to think about that backstage.
Rob: And you organize everything?
Allison: Everything. (nodding) Start to finish. You know, making sure there’s toilet paper to stirrers for the cocktails to the actual–
Rob: All the essentials.
Allison: (waves hand in a sweeping motion) –The garments that went down the runway, yeah.
Everything.
Rob: How do you find designers?
Allison: They find us! Which is nice at this point, we have an application which is live right now, so if you are an aspiring designer, or want to be part of a traditional fashion week you fill out the paper application, and then we review it.
Rob: At the website?
Allison: On the website, just a PDF, fill it out, e-mail it back, scan it back, whatever you need to do to get it to us, you can even snail mail it if you have to, and then we review it, and then from there we will schedule a phone interview and then usually after the phone interview the last part is meeting with the whole team for like a face-to-face interview and then we make our selection.
Rob: And are they mostly from the San Diego area?
Allison: You know what was really thrilling this year was almost every single one of our designers was from San Diego originally, they might have moved to Los Angeles– there was two of them in the case that San Diego was their home city and their family and they’re tied very deeply here, so if you count those two that are L.A. based businesses currently, but originated in San Diego, then everybody that showed this year was from San Diego which is really incredible.
Rob: How many designers did you say you had?
Allison: Twenty-one.
Rob: Twenty-one, okay, how many of those out of that were from San Diego?
Allison: Uh, it would have been nineteen! [smiles]
Rob: Nineteen, okay.
Allison: That are based and working, but every single one of them, even the two that are based in Los Angeles right now, they were born and raised in San Diego, and have family here so– technically they’re all San Diegans.
Rob: And you’re from Orange County, right?
Allison: I’m originally from Orange County yes.
Rob: What brought you down here to start fashion week here? What brought you down here to San Diego and made you want to do it in San Diego, other than being here?
Allison: Yeah, no I mean growing up in Orange County, I hated it, I hated growing up in Orange County–
Rob: You’re not a beach girl?
Allison: It’s not that! I love the beach, I still live by the beach, I would die if I wasn’t next to the ocean. You know it’s funny I’m not a surfer girl but I’ve never not lived by the water, I love the water, it’s so calming. It’s my place. But, um, no I hated orange county because there’s no center of downtown, there’s no center of commerce, so you don’t have that influx of um– cultures.
Rob: What city were you in?
Allison: I was in Huntington Beach.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: But there was no central downtown, I mean, people–
Rob: Not even on main street?
Allison: No, I mean well there’s main street Huntington, but I mean like, downtown San Diego; Downtown Los Angeles; Downtown San Francisco; Downtown Manhattan; Chicago– most cities have a hub, and that’s where you get a mix of cultures, and business and creative arts, and um, a wide body of people that bring their influences and their personal take on life and when you don’t have that you get very much a divided culture and you get a very (sub-population?) of the culture and that’s what Orange County is. We used to joke that if you were you know, west of the 405 it was like wonder bread white and if you were east of the 405 depending on which area you were little Saigon or Tijuana. And, I mean that’s terrible, you know? That wasn’t cool. I mean, I hated growing up there. I loved when I was a kid and we would go to L.A. or we would go to San Diego, I grew up coming to Encinitas a lot, which is hilarious, but now this is where I live. But, um, I loved coming down because you had more– I think more culture and more stimulation and I really thrived off of that, even young, I really enjoyed that. Um, I like eating wide varieties of food, I listen to extremely eclectic music. I am very– I consider myself very progressive and very open minded so I do well in that type of environment and I’m also very inspired by it. If everything’s the same it’s very boring to me.
Rob: [listening intently] Yeah.
Allison: You know, I get– lackluster, I need those (making passionate hang gestures) different influences to keep me stimulated.
Rob: Fashion is kind of good in that way in that it kind of blends different cultures, every scene, every trend is something new from– maybe different parts of the world or different influences that people have.
Allison: Oh my gosh (nodding) Their background, anything, yeah!
Rob: What is “fashion”? Like, if you could define fashion, let’s say– I was going to say 20 words or less but how about 10 words or less, What is “fashion”? I understand we’re going to get a little meta, but, um–
Allison: I know– see that’s the analytical side of me, I can either give you the lofty like spiritual side, or I can give you the analytical side– the first gut reaction that I have is it’s the worlds largest employer. That’s fashion.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: That’s the business side of it.
Rob: Okay, so it’s an industry.
Allison: It is, I mean or I can get very spiritual and lofty with you–
Rob: Sure.
Allison: –and say it’s an ideal.
Rob: Uh-huh.
Allison: Like, fashion is an ideal that you present to the world.
Rob: How so?
Allison: Of who you are, I mean literally it says who you are, you know from your accessories to your glasses to your watch to your shoes to your bag to your fanny pack to my purse, you know?
Rob: Right.
Allison: The coffee I’m holding in my hand! [raises cup] You know? All of it brands me as a human being and says and identifies to you, my likes, my interests, who I am and who I am not. I mean, think of high school; High school is the best example of that– You know those are your geeks [pointing], you know that’s the preppy kids, you know that’s your gothic kids, you know that’s your emo kids, you know that’s your surfer crew, that’s your jocks– and you do that from, basically aesthetics.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: Nobody has deep conversations with those people about what they love or what they don’t love, or what their views on life are. You’re totally judging them from their outer appearance.
Rob: What was your earliest experience of fashion? Like, going back into Allison’s childhood memory–
[Allison laughs]
Rob: What was your first awareness of, This is fashion, this is what I should look like or this is what I should wear, this is the label or brand that I should seek or ask my parents to buy me for Christmas or my birthday?
Allison: Yeah– [smiling and holding coffee cup]
Rob: What was your first impression?
Allison: I actually didn’t become a label whore, which the industry term–
Rob: (laughs)
Allison: I didn’t become a label whore–
Rob: Its a “technical term”. (laughing)
Allison: It’s a technical term, it is, at this point. I didn’t become that way until actually much older, I’d say like the last 10 years, maybe 5 even. Honestly. Maybe 5. Um, but, as a kid– my first take on fashion, you know, I grew up with a single mom, we grew up in an apartment, so for me, I think it was just being able to fit in and be accepted by a wide variety of my peers. Where we grew up was a very affluent area of town, but we were far from affluent. So, I think just being able to blend in and be accepted was the most important thing, I remember one incident where I had to (unintelligible) backpack, you know, Target or whatever company at that time, whatever backpack my mom picked up for the school year.
Rob: You were judged for that.
Allison: And, yeah, it was a Jansport backpack and I will never forget it, and it like ruined my whole school year, I felt like I was like, such a loser because I didn’t have a stupid Jansport backpack. And you know the funny thing is I’m such a sentimental goofball, I still have that damn backpack once I got it, it was a black one, with like leather suede brim trim and it would actually be like super chic, if I pulled it out right now people would think I’m like super hip, hipster–
Rob: Very retro.
Allison: Yeah, it’s very cool. I still have that stupid thing, because it was so important as a kid, you know? But um, no–
Rob: I think mine was OP, I remember OP–
Allison: That was huge.
Rob: Because yeah, (unintelligible) back in maybe like the 7th grade, I think? Back in the late 70’s early– mid to late 70’s.
Allison: Yeah OP was a big brand for a long time, even in the 80’s they kept on going.
Rob: the new skateboard that we had to have — It was GS deck with uh, roadwide wheels and (unintelligible) trucks.
Allison: Oh, that’s funny. (smiling)
Rob: that was like The– and I scored that, my parents bought me that for Christmas.
Allison: That’s nice.
Rob: So I was like “whoooo–” (makes thumbs up gesture)
Allison: I remember when I got a gravity longboard and that was awesome because I could keep up with the boys because I could pump that thing like twice and I would go faster than them.
Rob: Strong legs!
Allison: Yeah, yeah, so that was cool.
Rob: Ha!
Allison: Yeah, so I was more on the skater side of Huntington Beach than the surfer side, so–
Rob: Oh okay–
Allison: Yeah.
Rob: (unintelligible)
Allison: That’s what it is, action sports, yeah.
Rob: What’s your favorite thing to uh relax now, other than (unintelligible) being at home in your sweatpants?
Allison: God, can’t beat that– um, I love to travel, and it doesn’t have to be amazing I just like to see the world and explore it so, even just a getaway like this weekend we went to Arrowhead and it was just lovely to be in the mountains and just have no WIFI and terrible cell service and just unplug and be in nature and hang out, I love to garden, I love to read, I love holding old books like I actually like to tangibly read, not just a kindle or something, and I never get to read anymore with a toddler and work so, that’s a definite treat to be able to read, and I like cooking, kind of like a domestic goddess with her garden, cooking, family–(laughs heartily)
Rob: A domestic goddess, huh?
Allison: (laughs) My husband might disagree with all of that. (laughs)
Rob: (unintelligible)
What about– you say you like to travel, what about different cities like Los Angelos, I saw on facebook that you were in L.A. for recently for some sort of (unintelligible) party.
Allison: I did– Yeah. (nodding)
Rob: So are there any other fashion industry things that go on in L.A. or different cities that you kind of bring into play?
Allison: Yeah. I play to two of the biggest hubs in North America; Los Angelos and New York. I try to get to New York at least once a year, I’m lucky if I can do twice, but for sure once a year.
Rob: For what?
Allision: I try to go for their, uh, market season, not during their fashion week because it’s usually a couple weeks before mine–
Rob: Oh, yeah.
Allison: Because we’re a traditional fashion week so we all kind of hit the same time it usually goes, Paris– Milan– New York– Us– and then Los Angelos.
Rob: Is that because you’re all trying to sell fall at the same time?
Allison: Mhm. It’s the trends.
Rob: –to splurge the sales?
Allison: Yeah, so the fashion industry is going through a huge overhaul right now, um, and we’re all just trying to navigate it. But it used to be what would happen was you would show at the fashion week what was coming for the next season because then it would allow time for the retailers– the buyers, to see it presented on bodies, say, “Oh, I think that would look good in my store.”
Place the order. Then that designer or manufacturer would have time to make the garments, ship them to your store, and by the time they hit your store floor, that’s what’s ready for sale. It’s because– fashion is like bread, no one wants to buy stale bread, right? So you gotta bake it knowing that it’s gotta sell, it’s kind of like fashion works the same way.
Rob: [nodding]
Allison: So traditionally fashion weeks would work this way, we would see something– so if you saw it in the fall it would actually be for spring/summer. And when you go to a spring-summer show it would actually be for the fall merchandise.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: But now– with the internet and the general consumer behavior that we have in our current marketplace, which I love, I wouldn’t change it for the world I think it’s fantastic– um, people want it now. So, like a lot of what we saw this year at fashion week San Diego was actually garments for fall, ready to buy right then and there. There was no delay, so what you saw on the runway you could literally buy it that next– that Sunday, the last day of fashion week San Diego at our annual trunk show. So it’s interesting– some fashion weeks are still trying to showcase what’s to come but then they might piece in some accessories, or purses, or handbags, or watches, or belts that you could actually currently buy right then, they’re called immediates.
Rob: I guess in the industry– you were saying that the industry has been going through some upheaval and maybe you could elaborate on that, but um, I was thinking– is it because of the way fashion clothes are manufactured? Like, shoes aren’t made in Italy anymore– too much, like– clothes aren’t made in France, like their really high fashion stuff they ship out to Thailand, or Singapore, is that what you’re talking about?
Allison: No. It– it has nothing to do with that.
Rob: It’s not about cheap labor?
Allison: It’s not about cheap labor, it’s just the buyer it’s the consumer. Like, think about yourself right now if you see something and go, “Okay I want that.”
You can go on Amazon, and if you have Amazon Prime in 24 hours it’s going to be at your doorstep. So now imagine going to a fashion week having this consumer behavior and power that you’re now accustomed to as the consumer and now being told, “Oh you like that jacket you just bought? You have to wait 3 months.”
Rob: Mhm. [Nodding]
Allison: You’re gonna be like, “No, I’m gonna go find a knock-off version of it.”
Or, “No I’m gonna go find it somewhere else.”
So that’s what I’m saying. So now, instead of designers showing things that are meant to be coming they’re now having to kind of move that time scale up a lot quicker then what historically you would do as a best business practice, now those business practices are being changed because it’s 100 percent because of the consumer power. And also way back to your point about labor and manufacturing– yeah– that has affected some of the industry, like you’ll see brands that really promote their branding and their whole you know platform of the fact that they’re local now, and that they’re you know, um, organic, or fair trade, and that also has affected consumer behavior. I mean I myself am vegan. I don’t eat GMO’s, I’m organic, I’m that freak in the grocery store, you know if it doesn’t have 20 labels on it that are all my type of labels I’m not buying it.
Rob: How long have you been vegan?
Allison: Uh, since I stopped breastfeeding my kids.
Rob: Oh, cool!
Allison: [laughs] uh-huh, yeah.
Rob: So I guess your kids not vegan then.
Allison: Uh-uh. No. [sips coffee]
Rob: So it’s been like– your child is pretty young–
Allison: Couple months. But prior to her– prior to her– she’s such a puppet master– prior to her, I was a vegetarian. I’d still eat cheese. I don’t eat much dairy but I love cheese. Like a really good cheese, I would love the cheese.
Rob: You never eat meat?
Allison: Um not my thing, even when I was a kid, just not my thing. I’d eat fish. I went from being a pescatarian to a vegetarian. I was vegetarian for about 15 plus years–
Rob: Okay.
Allison: Sometimes pescatarian depending what was going on, and then having the baby all I wanted was filet mignon and burgers and hot dogs and it was gross. [making disgusted face]
I couldn’t get enough of it.
Rob: Really?
Allison: my cholesterol was so high (unintelligible, something about life insurance with my baby)
Rob: Really?
Allison: Yes, yes, yes– because of all the meat I consumed while pregnant with her. It just shot my cholesterol through the roof.
Rob: Wow.
Allison: So anyways– long story short, that’s a fun, interesting personal fact about me but now the pendulum has swung and I’m completely vegan and I love it.
Rob: So you do know what it’s like to experience the satisfaction of meat–
Allison: Oh yeah.
Rob: Good meat, filet mignon, just having some– meat.
Allison: Oh yeah. And I appreciate culinary arts even if it’s something I wouldn’t eat I can respect the craftsmanship what went into it if it is something that is cared for and presented with that mentality.
Rob: Sure.
[Both smile and laugh]
Allison: But not my cup of tea! Literally.
Rob: What about the other aspects of the fashion business that you might be attracted to? Are you only involved or only want to be involved in show (unintelligible) or do you think you’ll ever get your own label, have you ever been working for a label before or designer?
Allison: Yeah, yeah yeah. So my parent company, my first business is APA business consulting and that actually owns fashion week San Diego and that consulting firm this month of November turns 14 years old. So, I had it 4 years prior to even starting fashion week San Diego.
Rob: so that’s your (unintelligible) to the city?
Allison: That’s my– mhm– my baby. Um, it’s a corporation but I have no partners, it’s me myself and I. Um, but–
Rob: Don’t you have one employee, you said right?
Allison: I do! I love her oh my god, I always joke she’s not allowed to go anywhere, I’ll find her, she can never leave me. If she leaves–
Rob: Do you have a chaperone for her?
Allison: No seriously, if she leaves me I’m out too, she makes my life amazing at this point I’m spoiled by her, I could not do it without her– Samantha shout out to you, you’re amazing. [points to camera and waves]
Rob: Samantha?
Allison: Dwarf. She’s the bomb dot com. She’s a new mom now too so it’s fine now we have our kids and we work it’s a whole thing. But um, that consulting business, you mentioned I was in L.A.– I’ve been in L.A. every week for a minimum of one to two days for the last– it’s going on six weeks straight.
Rob: Downtown fashion district?
Allison: Mhm. And what I’m doing is I’m working with clients so I only take about five clients a year, right now I have three and I’m full I’m not taking anymore because they’re pretty big projects and they’re all different. One is launching a new patent pending swimwear item for children, the other one is a jewelry line that has already existed that’s trying to get showroom representation and kind of get out into bigger stores and become a bigger brand that’s well recognized. and then the third is a very interesting developer who came up again with another patent pending contraption for menswear, so it’s very interesting.
Rob: What kind of contraption?
Allison: It’s a tie, but I can’t say too much. It’s a menswear accessory it’s like a necktie– but the funny thing is– so I’m dealing with menswear accessories, women’s accessory, and childrenswear, and they range– and now they’re all trying to– they’re all manufacturing, they’re all making these goods these products, and they’re having me as their consultant in different areas whether it’s you know helping them find the textiles from the textile mill that they’re looking for that specific fabric, to manufacturing it here or abroad, pricing that out, to helping them with their patent and working with a lawyer and doing logo and branding and marketing and then just general sales and marketing plans to help them develop this business so it can be sustainable and actually make some money so they can follow their passion. So it’s very stimulating and it’s a lot of work, I deeply care for my clients when I get invested in them, I take them on as my own project and I mean after going through that recession which we talked about in 2007-8-9 basically 10.
Rob: Oh right, we mentioned before we started rolling that there was one year that you skipped.
Allison: Yeah, I mean– my heart is in these entrepreneurs. I mean like I said, I’ve seen people have to give up everything and it’s like the biggest defeat of their life, you know, these hanging heads because they didn’t make it work, so—when I take on my clients, I’m different than most consultants, I’m extremely hands-on and I do deeply care about what they’re trying to do and I’m also very cautious and I think that I’m actually a better consultant now because I’m so cautious and understand the value of their dollar and where it’s coming from, I mean some of my clients literally take second mortgages out on their homes to follow this dream, so I mean their is a lot of the line here, you know, they’ve quit great jobs, they’ve taken big risks, cashed out 401ks, I mean the whole game—total entrepreneur spirit. And those are my people that I work with, those are my people! So—
Rob: (unintelligible)
Allison: I take that very seriously! I take my job as a consultant extremely seriously. It’s not even the right title. I hate the word consultant because it sounds very hands-off, pay me and I’ll speak for finance and I’m out the door, that’s not what I do I mean I’m extremely hands-on, I mean I’ve gone to L.A. and physically walk into the place and make introductions.
Rob: It’s like being a life coach.
Allison: Kind of! For business, I guess, yeah. And I can’t help it, I’m a caring person, so I do—I do care.
Rob: Well the people in this business, like any of the arts—a lot of the people who (unintelligible) are so talented and bright that they could make a lot more money in Wall Street (unintelligible bunch of ran together words)
Allison: It’s like the creative arts, my clients are wickedly smart.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: Wickedly smart. They’ve all had very successful careers, they’ve all done very well, um, they’re at a place where they can strategically take this risk and there wouldn’t be a lot of loss of their time, their money, and their effort. But still—that’s not an option. But all of them—I mean the one woman is at the top level of her brokerage firm, the other one, she was a doctor—I mean c’mon! And then the other gentleman had his own—a slew of like car auto body shops and had them all over Las Vegas and Nevada. So they’re all very savvy and very highly intelligent people, it’s not like they just drew something and said, “This is pretty, let’s go start a fashion business.”
Um, most of my clients are pretty incredible people, I truly enjoy working with them too, because I learn from them too in different ways.
Rob: Who’s your favorite designer right now?
Allison: Oh gosh.
Rob: Can you give me any names? Can you give me like two or three names that you think are most worthy of talking about or mentioning? Just currently I mean this is fall 2017.
Allison: well I’m going to be a little biased and say that you know since I do fashion week San Diego and I’m all about emerging brands and the entrepreneur spirit and you know it’s obviously the theme to my whole career, um, I really think people need to watch (Vaughnberry?) from Fashion Week San Diego. He’s participated—this was his third year he brought women’s wear, he started with menswear, he’s just such a raw talent with a very specific viewpoint. And see in fashion that’s probably the most challenging thing, because you’re not creating anything really new, a shirt is a shirt is a shirt! It’s just what’s your viewpoint? And what is the story? And how did you make it all come together to make it so unique and so creative?
Rob: So how do you do that?!
Allison: Right?
Rob: Like how did Versace or Gucci become big?
Allison: [Laughs] Well Gucci I could give you a history, Gucci is actually my favorite fashion house, so if you’re asking me about a label, I ’m a Gucci girl I’m an Italian fashion house all day long.
Rob: So how did that happen?
Allison: For me?
Rob: For them.
Allison: For them, well, they started out in some ridiculous time period—like 18-something, making leather gloves and belts and selling them on the street as a vendor in Florence and (unintelligible) And—best construction, best leather and just had a great following and it grew from there into the empire that it is today. All of them started out—I mean Chanel was the same thing. Literally, Chanel started with a woman saying, “F- skirts! I wanna wear pants and a hat.”
That’s Chanel. [smiles] Now look at the empire.
Rob: Mhm. [nods]
Allison: You know, and obviously things happen as all businesses—the founders and the people who originally created it—deceased/retired—it makes enough money that now you get a board of directors and then it becomes you know—it’s a business now.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: The harder part is trying to keep some of that original essence of the designer passion and viewpoint, so you’ll see them bring in other designers like Tom Ford, or—he was with Gucci for a moment, or Collin (unintelligible last name) with ya know Chanel, to keep kind of those different viewpoints and keep it stimulating and fresh and keep it still authentic to the designers eye, not this just commercial mass branded mass produced frivolous thing. And fashion is not frivolous and that’s one of my favorite things to educate you on, it is so far from frivolous.
Rob: How so?
Allison: Well it’s the number one worlds employer like I told you.
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: So if you want a job—Yes, fashion.
Rob: Fashion.
Allison: [deliberately] Fashion.
Rob: Not defense—not medicine or health.
Allison: Fashion.
Rob: Okay. [shrugs]
Allison: So think about it. Let’s just start with one example. Okay, and imagine all the jobs in all the designated industry just to this one component of fashion. So—planting and harvesting—cotton, cotton farmers. Their whole crops get sold to the fashion textile plant. So you have all those farming/agriculture jobs right? And this is one scenario, I can do this for multiple things and then you’ll see the impact that this has.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: So! Cotton farmers. All those jobs are fashion jobs. From there it goes to a textile mill so it can actually get used and not be just raw cotton—all those jobs. From there from the textile mill now in usable fabric now it goes to a dye house or a print house so it can be this beautiful crème color, right? And different (spuns?). And that’s a whole other job. And from there that piece of textile either goes to a manufacturing plant so that they can use it to develop their own line, or it goes to a fabric store, or it goes to a high-end design house because it was specially made for Gucci. Job—job—jobs. And when I say jobs, jobs, jobs, I’m talking sales clerk—office manager—trash picker-upper—whatever!
Rob: Mhm.
Allison: Okay, jobs. Then from there after that textile being in use, now it’s going to be made. So, that’s cut and sew, that’s the manufacturing. Everybody that’s going to cut and sew it and package it and put it in the packaging and put the label on it, all those are little jobs.
Rob: (UNITELLIBLGE AGAIN)
Allison: Over my dead—oh my goodness!
Rob: [laughs]
Allison: This is a huge industry! I mean this is trillions of dollars. This is the world’s largest employer. And when I’m saying this example we haven’t even walked into the store yet, this isn’t even to the consumer—the consumer is way down at the end of this table [points to the end of table]
I mean, I can literally take you through this chain. But you’re talking about– In that scenario like we didn’t even get halfway to the end of the line here, but you can see where I’m going about why it’s the worlds largest employer. That could happen in Thailand, that could happen in North America, that could happen in Canada, that could have happened in Australia, that could happen in Japan, this is happening everywhere! Finland, Denmark, Ireland, that whole everything.
Rob: Yeah just thinking about, the local few blocks of shops that are around here, there’s so many fashion clothing boutiques.
Allison: And that’s the end use. You’re not even talking about the chain it took to get that shirt to hang up in that store.
Rob: Yeah. Getting back to designers, you mentioned one designer that you like but what about local fashion culture like—what about surf culture?
Allison: Oh it’s great.
Rob: Surf um—do you use a lot of that in San Diego fashion week or is it more a high fashion—haute couture—or whatever it is—
Allison: [laughs]
So fashion week San Diego– the way that it’s recognized by the world industry– which we are a world recognized fashion week– how we got to be there was we played to emerging brands, so we’re not category specific. So, when I say category specific I’m not talking about “action sports”, or you know, bathing suits, or gowns. We don’t care about what category. We care that you’re an emerging brand, that you’re someone who does a million in sales or under in a year. And that you’re serious, it’s not like “I watched project runway and now I’m going to be a fashion designer and go be in fashion week San Diego”, you wouldn’t even make it through the paper application that’s why we have these applications.
Rob: So when people are putting out the application do they send a banking statement too?
Allison: No. [smiles] We’re not that hardcore but we do ask some sales numbers, we ask how many stores they’re in– what their revenue is, um, what current orders they have out in purchase orders, we do ask for that. And that’s pretty common in the industry that’s not anything– they have to be used to saying that. if they’re a true fashion brand, that’s what you want to talk about, it’s not a negative it’s actually very positive. So, that’s why we can easily screen people out. I can talk to someone for five seconds and know if they would be appropriate to put on the runway at fashion week or not. And it’s not because they’re not good enough, I really want to clarify, it’s not because they couldn’t hang. Our event– it’s on such a high level and the exposure is so high and the demand for what we’re asking of these designers is so high, it’s all professional barred excellence, we’re not creating anything that’s not abnormal but we play to that high professional game. So we want to make sure that the designers that come on board can do that. And do that comfortably. And be ready for it! the worst thing you can do is put somebody in a situation they can’t handle. In anything in life, right? So that’s really why we screen designers, not because what they make is not my aesthetic or I don’t like the clothing they create, that has nothing to do with it, that’s just opinion. It’s– can they handle the business opportunities that are going to come out of it and be able to run with that and take that and run and use it as a catalyst and a launching pad because that’s what we’re meant to do.
Rob: So you work with the best. Or the up and coming best.
Allison: The best of the up and coming, yes.
Rob: Before I got you sidetracked you mentioned one name–
Allison: Yeah!
Rob: One designer, Vaun– um–
Allison: VaughnBerry. He’s a local San Diego designer and he’s fantastic.
Rob: Okay. A couple of others?
Allison: Yeah, so he’s fantastic– this year’s tops designer was Balza. And she does beautiful gowns which are phenomenal and I could see her being another (unintelligible designer name) from Los Angeles and blowing up, um, she got more into (unintelligible) and that’s a whole different market. And then last year the winner designer and local, and this year’s 3rd place winning designer is (unintelligible designers name) and she’s fantastic because her style is polished, it’s gorgeous, but it’s ready to wear. Which means you don’t have to overthink about it, it’s not like you have to be like about, “Am I going to a high-end outfit?”
You can be like, “I like it, it fits good, I can wear this work, I can wear it to happy hour– I can wear it for this interview right now.”
Rob: Mhm and these three are from San Diego?
Allison: they’re all from San Diego. which is amazing, and the last one– I’m really impressed with her, constantly in awe and I think very highly of what she’s doing is (Taylor? unintelligible) and she does knitwear similar to what I’m wearing right now right here [points to her shirt]. This is called knitwear. And it’s very modern it’s very– knitwear is on the rise right now in fashion, women’s fashions especially. And she does it and it’s an art. it’s honestly like a lost art.
Rob: My mom would be proud of that. [makes a fist]
Allison: Yeah it’s a lost art and it’s on the rise. People who understand it greatly appreciate the work that goes into knitwear, because it’s something that really– it can be mass produced, it is mass produced– but it’s aesthetic is not that. It’s very much a handmade artisan piece of clothing, and Taylor (whit?) is local, she does that and she launched this year at fashion week San Diego and her momentum is just very high and if she keeps it going I wouldn’t be shocked to see a lot come from her.
Rob: What men’s fashion designers do you like currently?
Allison: Like, major labels, or?
Rob: Or that you are uh–
Allison: Working with?
Rob: Developing yeah, that you’re working with yeah.
Allison: Ohh– I would say Vaughnberry again. I go back to him and the reason why I think he is on the mark, so to speak, in menswear specifically to your question, is because he’s playing a lot with textiles that usually you don’t see in menswear. So if you’ve seen a little bit with fashion, and this is also a hot trend right now in fashion, is binary fashion. It’s kind of an “It” word that you’re hearing thrown around– binary fashion. And basically what it is, is its non-gender specific clothing so instead of going into the men’s section of the store or the female section of the store, it’s an anybody section. So a shirt that you could wear I could wear essentially.
Rob: It’s unisex.
Allison: It’s unisex. But unisex isn’t sexy. It doesn’t sound cool. Binary is you know, a little modern and progressive and funky. So it’s more– binary fashion is the key term. But his menswear is menswear but the textiles he’s using– for example, he’ll use silk and make a silk shirt. You never see men in silk shirts unless it’s like a bad 70’s polyester throwback costume party. I mean it’s not a commonly used thing.
Rob: I’m all for that though. I like women to be feminine and I want to be masculine you know?
Allison: And there’s nothing wrong with that! And he does too, he does too! And that’s the beauty of it. He’s not trying to make men look like women and he’s not trying to make women look like men he’s just using textiles and doing the same cut for a normal men’s shirt it just happens to be a really bomb silk or a really beautiful knitwear or tweed. Which tweed, you usually don’t see men in tweed jackets unless it’s like a smoking jacket and they’re going to go play polo or riding out in ya know England or something like that. It’s very iconic of that, but the way he’s using it is very modern very contemporary and very palpable so to speak where you would feel comfortable wearing it as and not as a man. That’s why I like him and that’s why he’s one to watch because even though he’s being modern and progressive he’s doing it in a very smart savvy way– where yes some of the pieces on the runway are going to shake up the envelope because that’s a runway show that’s meant to kind of shake things up and put on a little bit of an entertainment you know visual spectacular, but in general his pieces I think they’re very easy for people to buy and use and they’re done meticulously they’re beautiful.
Rob: I was going to ask– what is the most revolutionary thing happening in fashion right now? I mean I think about a few years back when Obama was president he was kind of shaking things up a little because he would appear for press briefings sometimes without a tie– and it was like “Oh!”
But you know like three or four decades ago, uh, what was that guy’s name again– he was affiliated with the Sex Pistols? And he or she had that London boutique called Sex. And they would deal with all those punk rock t-shirts you know with the ripped up shirts and they had started that whole fashion trend you know with the punk rock thing.
Allison: Punk rock is never dead. It’s always there, it’s always in fashion. [smiling]
Rob: Right, right, but it’s already happened.
Allison: it’s already happened.
Rob: What’s happening now that’s revolutionary according to what you’ve seen?
Allison: So, I’m going to go back a little bit to binary fashion. I think that’s very revolutionary, I think that’s a whole– I mean the thing about the industry right now– imagine if that catches on that’s going to be like whole department floors, different looking manikins, I mean this is big, and this is transiting in every area you are starting to see things that are very gender neutral and it also is showing that the times of transgender, and be people being different. Fashion reflects its mirror, fashion reflects the culture, so whenever there is shit going on politically you’re going to see fashion take that on, in music too! It’s all art, it’s all art! You’re going to see it in the graffiti art, from the song that’s playing on the corner to what the person is wearing. It’s completely a mirror of culture. So the binary fashion and being very– also with women’s empowerment and women having this big movement which I love, I would consider myself definitely a girl power, um, this is great because women are saying, “I don’t need to wear fucking’ a skirt, I don’t need to wear a dress, I can wear whatever I want to wear.”
So this plays to a lot of different cultural things happening with a broad stroke.
Rob: Binary fashion.
Allison: Yes.
Rob: It opens up more options for people.
Allison: Correct. I think it’s a very very big category and I think it could be something very big for the industry and it would a big change because it would effect–again, the whole industry. And for the consumer in use of it, it would be a huge game changer. For the other big trend I would say sustainable materials, and this is something that doesn’t catch on as quickly because it’s very costly, it’s not widely used, I mean it’s just very expensive still because it’s just not out there as much but, different fabrics that– for example there’s now leathers that are synthetic that are made out from mushrooms. And it’s incredible, and actually, Tesla just announced that they’re using their vegan leather in their cars. Um, so these alternative textiles are fantastic and they’re good for the ecosystem and the economy and just in general for the world. So sustainable fibers are good, along with sustainable fibers and kind of that area– they’re even making fiber from milk. Milk fiber. I mean theirs some really cool, cool stuff. even recycled plastics into textiles. I mean the eco-sustainable category of fashion is incredible and it’s very scientific but it’s very cost expensive and cost prohibitive that I would love to see that grow more because then it would become just common and relative and then more people can use it when they are launching their new line they’ll think of these fibers instead of maybe cotton. So, that’s something that hasn’t change, I mean 3D printing I would put in that category too that’s something else that was huge, and actually two years ago we were lucky to have the 3D printing collection in one of the developers from Paris fashion week show behind the scenes footage and guest speak at fashion week, San Diego, I can send you some names and lists and all that.
Rob: So they’re 3D printing clothes?
Allison: Mhm. All the garments, it was incredible, it was huge. But again, that came onto the scene blew up, and now it’s kind of quiet again. So this whole area has been something that has been on the rise and could be a huge game changer and it’s slowly but surely trying to do it. Organic textiles hit and that was good and that’s relative and you can find that everywhere now. But the sustainable fibers is really– I personally would love to see that become the big game changer. Slowly but surely it’s getting there but I’d like to see it more.
Rob: No fur?
Allison: No absolutely not, that’s just terrible.
Rob: Leather from animal skin?
Allison: That’s terrible too.
Rob: Raising animals just to slaughter them for their skin?
Allison: Yeah, it’s gross. it’s super fucking gross. Yeah, I’m a huge animal lover so it’s not– it’s not necessary. I mean I have heirlooms pieces from my grandmother you know some furs and stuff, and they’re sentimental, but I never– they just hang in my closet.
Rob: Do you think you’d go back there and talk to your grandmother (unintelligible)
Allison: [laughs] I don’t know. it was a different time period–
Rob: It was.
Allison: And things were different and the environment was different and things were used and well cared for and not just abused in some ways.
Rob: Well if you could sit down with some future industry giant, be it a model or a designer, what advice would you give? I mean if, you know– if you were gonna like talk to someone who was gonna be huge in the future, what would you say?
Allison: Oh! I would say everything that I say to my designers now and my models now, um, I would remind them just to be very aware, aware of everything, you know we try to be very mindful at fashion week and remember the bigger picture and I think that’s very important especially with obviously my passion points as usual– vegan and blah blah blah– but when you’re mindful of the world you live in you’re a better (unintelligible) of the world which in my opinion makes you a better business owner, and if you’re doing good business and if you’re doing things for the right reason then you will always make money and I believe that to my core, I’ve operated my whole business, I survived the recession, I started my business, I had 20– I couldn’t even go to a bar and order a drink and I’m here now, ya know? I’ve created a beautiful life for myself but I do everything for the right reason and it’s never been the paycheck. I’ve never woken up and said, “How much money am I going to get out of people today?”
It’s just not the game. It’s not the end game. So I think when I talk to people who want to get into fashion, remember when I said it’s the worlds largest employer– it’s a trillion dollar industry?
Rob: Everyone wants to get into fashion.
Allison: Some people want to get into it because they want the fast buck, right? They think oh, fashion! I’ll do shirts, I’ll make a shit ton of money and then I’ll get out and I’ll do something else. That’s not a good business. That’s not a good way to do business. So that shouldn’t be the big picture. You need to think farther, what are you doing? What is your contribution? I mean, at the end of the day if you are going to do anything for yourself, whether you’re a musician, an artist, a reporter an owner of a magazine, whatever you’re gonna do– What the fuck are you doing? Like, make it worth your time, like make your contribution something later that you can sit back and go, “Oh, that was awesome, I did that.”
Like, I went back and I think about all the brands and all the entrepreneurs I’ve been able to help and do something for and be a service to, and it’s incredible in just 10 years I’ve worked with over 100 plus brands and each of those brands are run by a designer or an entrepreneur like you and me and I’ve been able to hear their stories and their passion and be a part of that journey and that’s really special! You know, there are some people that wake up and they sit at a desk job every day doing the same medial task and not knowing what the larger impact is of what they’re doing is of what they’re doing. That is purgatory to me. Ya, know like, so at the end of the day if you’re gonna do something and if you’re gonna be in this industry and if you’re gonna be a model, and if you’re gonna be a designer or if you’re gonna develop a retail store or make a chain of retail stores, what is the big goal? What is the thing you’re trying to do? If you’re doing it because you think your hot and your a pretty face and your skinny and you just wanna make some money because you hear models make a lot of money and get to go to parties and have fun, probably not the best business plan you know? You might want to recheck that. because what happens if you get pregnant? What happens if you get in a car accident?
Rob: A lot of models do that, they don’t really care about the money, they aren’t living for the money a lot of them don’t even want to be paid, they just wanna have a good time and be a good model.
Allison: And that’s awesome, that’s awesome, but you should get paid too.
Rob: well yeah yeah. But I’ve met a few designers and seems like they’re not really like– they either have money or come from money or they got someone helping them out with money but they just want to do it because fashion is their passion.
Allison: It’s true. Passion is everything.
Rob: Yeah.
Allison: Passion is everything.
Rob: But, um, give me an example of mindfulness in the fashion business, I mean– like (unintelligible) there was somebody who was doing a class online (unintelligible) state prison.
Allison: That’s (unintelligible) that would be interesting, I’d love to sit in on that. [laughs]
Rob: Yeah. It would be educational for sure because I really uh– in fashion mindfulness would be exemplified by the big picture that you’re trying to develop a new fashion that is– you know, unisex or binary or–
Allison: I think there’s that too. I’m thinking of end goal when I say mindfulness, I’m talking about the big picture at the end of the line, because if you’re going to give your time and you’re going to work on something you should always go to what’s the end goal. And I always tell my clients and anybody in general when you are an entrepreneur and you start something off and you go to create, you automatically have two options at the end, you’re either going to sell it or you’re going to close it. Selling could be– your kid takes on the business or you get investors and you become publically traded or you hire a (unintelligible) and you just get a severance package and they run your company. But that’s all selling, right? We all know what selling looks like. Or you are closing. Closing is– I kept my fist tight, I didn’t work with anybody, I brought in new partners and now I’m old, I’m tired, I’m retiring, I’m closing my business. Or– I couldn’t make enough money– I didn’t develop it right, where you’ve run out of money and you have to close by default. So you know automatically going into starting something these are your two options, so knowing that you would probably want to be more on the selling, because who wants to start something just to close it? That just sounds very silly. So knowing that you want to be on the selling side of thing, what is the big picture of that? What are you doing? What is your legacy? What is the mindfulness behind this brand, you know? What’s the bigger picture? So depending on what your hot points are– if you’re somebody who– I’ll keep using my self as an example because it’s obvious because I have all of these (unintelligible). But, you know, for me– I’m vegan, I’m girl power, and I’m definitely a total hippie, I care about the environment– I’m totally the hippie my mom warned me about it’s hilarious.
Rob: Your mom wasn’t a hippie? [laughs]
Allison: No far from it. [laughs]
But I– you know, but I at the same time– I like nice things, I appreciate craftsmanship, I want a certain aesthetic in my life, but if I were to create a brand, right? Myself. If I were going to become a fashion designer, I would probably look at using sustainable fibers first of all, so whatever I could get my hands on I would start with that, and that’s how I would develop out my collection. From there I would probably work with a local manufacturer because that’s important to me. And I would want them to be you know fair employees, with breaks and lunches, and just a good business with a good work ethic.
Rob: (unintelligible)
Allison: Yeah, I don’t want little kids with missing fingers making my clothing, you know– getting paid 25 cents for the week, like that’s not going to fly with me. And I would probably hire a lot of women because I already do that which is my thing. And, you know I would work with a lot of women entrepreneurs to help me launch this because that’s why I would want to invest my money. And my brand would probably serve on women consumer, at some point in her life, where she needs whatever product I was trying to develop to fill a gap because there are so many options out there I don’t want to be another option I want to fill a gap, because it’s just– again, what are you doing? So for me, I would like developing out that business because I know I’m having an impact at each step of this evolution of this career of developing this fashion brand, I’m doing something that has a good effect for me and my value system, and for the bigger picture. Now everybody’s different and everybody has different goals, but if I can impart one thing, I always just tell people to think about the world they’re living in and others and try to be a good person at the end of– just be a fucking good person and be nice to people. you know, anyway, that’s the end of the day. So if you’re developing a business, develop the business with that in mind too, not just the money.
Rob: So mindfulness is being kind of big picture conscious and eyes on the prize and goal kind of oriented.
Allison: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Rob: Thank you.
Allison: I don’t know if anybody likes what I have to say, but that’s what I have to say!
Rob: And I’ve never heard that explained before so thank you for that.
Allison: Okay.
Rob: But um, you’re already planning fashion week 2018.
Allison: Yeah. It’s crazy. No downtime, no downtime, just rolls.
Rob: And it’s going to be downtown again, or you don’t know?
Allison: I don’t know I have a couple bids out to locations, and there’s one that I’m not going to lie I very very much want for it to be accepted and for us to meet in the middle and then everything will fall into place from there.
Rob: And does it have to be downtown? Could but in La Jolla?
Allison: No. It could be anywhere.
Rob: Rancho Sante Fe?
Allison: It could be anywhere. But I don’t think from our consumer and our audience– um I don’t think we will be back in La Jolla, we did that for two years and that was great and I think we are ready either to stay downtown or in neighborhoods um– but I don’t see us being in Rancho Sante Fe either.
Rob: Too out in the sticks? Nice place but just too far away.
Allison: [smiling] Mhmm. yeah.
Rob: Where were you in L.A.?
Allison: We closed Wall Street between (unintelligible st name) and (unintelligible street name) we closed a street and erected a stage and it was pretty amazing. It was incredible.
Rob: When I saw you, you had something going on at the one little corner sushi shop at the corner across from the Hard Rock? Remember that, you had a little show there? Remember that, was that 2010 when I was there?
Allison: Oh my gosh– so yeah, so remember how you were saying you know– before when I was a consultant I would do for my fashion brands little small fashion shows, so that was probably one of those little fashion shows.
Rob: C’mon!
Allison: They were great! Actually, the smaller fashion shows are a ball because they’re fast they’re furious they’re easy and you can just have a great time and low stress.
Rob: (unintelligible)
Allison: Yeah they’re great, I love those guys.
Rob: When are you going to do the next one? What is the next thing you’re planning?
Allison: Spring showcase will be the next one.
Rob: Oh really? That far out?
Allison: So we go dark– as far as events– we come off fashion week San Diego in October and we don’t do anything until about March. March– February/March we look at doing something. But then Spring showcase– that event is somewhere between March, April or May.
Rob: And where will that be?
Allison: I can’t tell you yet. [smiles]
Rob: You can’t huh? Oh okay. it’s a secret.
Allison: [nodding] See the thing about location I’ve found is if I give people options and if I say, “I’m thinking about this– I’m thinking about this– I’m thinking about this–”
It gives people preconceived notions of what they would prefer or what they think is better if you don’t say that and then I show you and you experience–
Rob: Yeah. And you don’t want to jinx it either.
Allison: No! Not right now.
Rob: Where is there anything you can tell us about it?
Allison: No.
Rob: Nothing?
Allison: No.
Rob: Okay.
Allison: [laughs hearitly]
Rob: Other than it’s a Spring fashion thing–
Allison: So spring (unintelligible) I can tell you about. Spring (unintelligible) is really rad we’ve done this for the last couple years it’s a newer event in the fashion week San Diego kind of offerings of our events and it’s where we announce and showcase all of the designers of that year we show one look by them, so it’s fast, so instead of seeing these long collections come out you’re just seeing one model, one look, and it’s kind of like a taster where you can really quickly go, “Oh I kind of like that designer.”
Or, “Oh you know that’s not for me.”
Or, “Ooh I love what they’re doing.”
And it’s fun, it’s fast, it’s one night– and it basically takes the whole runway week of the year and smashes it into one night, so usually we have a smaller runway stage, we show one look, we have some type of entertainment going on– something interesting from–
Rob: Maybe a DJ?
Allison: We always have DJs, we love our DJs. We love bands, we always have good music. But when I say entertainment sometimes we’ll have like an amazing opera singer, or we’ll have like Cirque du Soleil performers, or we’ll have a rock and roll band that’s pretty well known. Or something cool locally, that’s stimulating– that’s extra entertainment for that night that’s not just the fashion.
Rob: Right.
Allison: Then around the venue what we’ll have is all of the designers that are participating that year will have a booth. And the reason why we started this event instead of having a full runway week in the Spring is because nobody knows these emerging brands right? They’re emerging brands. They’re emerging, which means they’re not household names. So it’s really important that our consumer gets to know these brands and interacts with them and develops a relationship with them whatever that looks like. So by the time we get to the October runway shows you already have some familiarity with what you’re about to see and you might even have your favorites and the ones you don’t like that’s awesome that’s what fashion is about, it’s like eating food. We could go to a restaurant and have the same meal and I love it and you hate it fashion is the same way that’s what makes it interesting and creates a dialogue and a good buzz and all that. So by Spring showcase announcing and showing the one look on the runway then having the designers there to interact with– it’s a fantastic event, I love Spring showcase.
Rob: And that will be in March?
Allison: It will either be March, April or May. We do it in one of those months. Springtime. May is a little late but it has been in May before.
Rob: And you will announce it on your website by January you think?
Allison: Yeah. I like to have most of the details locked down by for the year in January so when we are in January or February we can be announcing what’s coming and still calling for designers. But currently, right now my biggest priority is interviewing and starting to get the designers– people who are interested in participating next year. I’d like to get that dialed in before we get into January.
Rob: Okay. And your talent prospects can reach you at SDfashionweek.com?
Allison: FashionweekSD.com!
Rob: FashionweekSD.com. [looking at camera] Remeber that guys.
Allison: Our trademark is FashionweekSD.
Rob: Okay, that’s right you gotta put the fashion week first.
Allison: That’s right.
Rob: Um, well great, thank you very much!
Allison: Thank you for the time.
Rob: Thank you for everything and uh, yeah I appreciate your time here. And I look forward to seeing–
Allison: Hope you guys like it! [laughs]
(unintelligible something about entertaining]
Rob: You were very entertaining and informative, thank you. So we’re looking forward to seeing what you have cooking for 2018.
Allison: I am too! I don’t even really know what it’s going to look like yet, it’s fun for me! It’s still in the works. [laughs]
8 tracks, martial marching tunes for the accordian and klezmer crowd. Maybe there is some klenzmer here, I don’t know. Just seems to fit into that genre since there’s a strong eastern European spirit echoing through this music which I noticed immediately long before reading in the press release that singer Jason Vanderford’s great grandparents immigrated from Hungary. Track two is called “Dance With Me Bela Lugosi” and is said to be inspired by his grandmother dancing with Lugosi on two occasions in the 1940’s. Despite the reference to the goth scene icon this cd is anything but dark and brooding; in fact it tries hard to be peppy and upbeat, in a way perhaps impoverished villagers were used to being bravely facing their hardship in the 1800’s. If there’s references to sex here also like it says in the press release then they must have floated right past me after a couple of listens. Find this band at junkparlor dot com.
Although Halloween today appears more of a holiday for kids young and old it had a very practical reason for existing in ancient times. None the least being that it is a reminder that you’re still alive and able to party and not six feet under, yet.
‘…adults participate in the fun of Halloween on the night of October 31st, few will be aware of its ancient Celtic roots in the Samhain (Samain) festival. In Celtic Ireland about 2,000 years ago, Samhain was the division of the year between the lighter half (summer) and the darker half (winter). At Samhain the division between this world and the otherworld was at its thinnest, allowing spirits to pass through.
‘The family’s ancestors were honoured and invited home whilst harmful spirits were warded off. People wore costumes and masks to disguise themselves as harmful spirits and thus avoid harm. Bonfires and food played a large part in the festivities. The bones of slaughtered livestock were cast into a communal fire, household fires were extinguished and started again from the bonfire. Food was prepared for the living and the dead, food for the ancestors who were in no position it eat it, was ritually shared with the less well off.
‘Christianity incorporated the honouring of the dead into the Christian calendar with All Saints (All Hallows) on November 1st, followed by All Souls on November 2nd. The wearing of costumes and masks to ward off harmful spirits survived as Halloween customs. The Irish emigrated to America in great numbers during the 19th century especially around the time of famine in Ireland during the 1840’s. The Irish carried their Halloween traditions to America, where today it is one of the major holidays of the year. Through time other traditions have blended into Halloween, for example the American harvest time tradition of carving pumpkins.’
[The two top pics below are from after the band Forest Grove played night before last at The Black Cat bar in San Diego.]
Forest Grove at The Black Cat, photo by Robert Rowsey.
Two-thirds of Forest Grove at The Black Cat, photo by Robert Rowsey.
The Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas (AEE 2018)
Author, painter, and some-time adult performer, Zak Smith talks shop in Las Vegas.
video interview by Reviewer Rob
[I think this is an accurate transcript. Our data-entry girl practically went cross-eyed typing this 40-minute video’s dialog so if she missed anything or entered it wrong please let us know. For the video click the pic below or scroll to the bottom of the post.]
Zak Smith at the Hard Rock Hotel, January, 2018.
[Late January, 2018, second night of AEE. As the video begins we’re seated at a table in the hotel cafe, midway in conversation.]
Zak: Everybody’s wearing fake eyelashes, and Everybody’s wearing tons of makeup. Everybody like, takes a long time to get ready, and then at night everybody just gets fuuucked up.
Rob: (laughs) Do they?
Zak: Well, not everybody, but it’s like, it’s kind of a battle between like, trying to be good and get up on top.
Rob: Yeah.
Zak: And do everything right, And then on the other hand try and be like, you’re in Vegas and people keep asking you to come out and be like, “Hang out!” and “Go to the club!” And so, the battle to stay beautiful is kind of like (unintelligible)
Rob: Is a pressure to also like, live the lifestyle? A lot of people have to be edgy and they have to go out and get drunk, and you know?
Zak: I think it’s less abstract than that, it’s just like, people do wanna have fun and they also, people always like, wanna hang out, and so, they wanna hang out with their friends, so, you know. It’s very edgy by default, rather than uh–
Rob: (Laughs) Edgy by default. (Unintelligible)
Zak: (to an approaching man) Steve!
Rob: (to Steve) Hey how’s it going?
Zak: (to Rob) This is Steve.
Rob: Hi Steve, I’m Rob, nice to meet you.
Zak: (to Steve) I’m just doing an interview. (to Rob) Steve’s a photographer, freelance. He came here for Hustler and Inked.
Rob: Very cool.
Zak: And like, he’ll do whatever.
(Unintelligible conversation)
[Setting changes now we’re upstairs in the pressroom for AEE.]
Rob: I like the lighting. We’re here, we’re here with Zak Sabbath, and this is our Reviewer Magazine at the A.E.E. expo 2018, this is January 2018, and um, Stormy Daniels is a big, uh, issue right now in the press because of her uh, (Unintelligible) So yeah, um, Stormy Daniels, I mean the porn has gotten so mainstream, Stormy Daniels, um was like head or tails, is she going to affect the 2016 election or not? What’s your take on the whole Stormy Daniels, um, issue right now, Zak?
Zak: I mean I don’t think it, it doesn’t do much for the president, I mean he could really, like, he could fuck a goat on the white house lawn and no one would care. Um, but I think it does, It does affect how you think about porn because, it basically, I mean for anybody who looks at internet traffic knows that most internet traffic is porn, so for a while it’s become obvious that like, porn is sort of the thing that’s always there and not talked about, you know? That a lot of people are participating in, they’re watching, and they’re not talking about it, um, at least they’re not talking about it as like a normal thing, as like a healthy thing. (unintelligible) And I think that Trump fucking porn stars is one of those things were it’s just one more brick in the wall, you know, or out of the wall I guess, where it just, it’s not just the mainstreaming of porn, it’s the mainstreaming of like, even people who are supposed to be conservative or republican have to eventually admit that they’re okay with it, and that, they are bringing it into other peoples lives, into the news, they’re making a thing of it, ya know?
Rob: I think it’s like, because everybody who runs, every man or woman now, who runs for the presidency has to get the approval of the religious right, it’s more of a commentary on them and American society because, Billy Grahams son was validating what happened and saying, “Hey, that was years ago, and it was a alleged!” And he was totally, like, this guys an evangelical preacher! And he was excusing the president for the whole thing.
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: I have no problem with it, you have no problem with it. Everybody in this hotel has no problem with it. Some married guy, married billionaire fucking a porn star, it’s like, good for him, right?
Zak: I mean I do have a problem with it because Stormy should not be fucking Donald Trump.
Rob: Ohh, really?
Zak: I mean I’m not– I don’t think that Donald Trump shouldn’t be fucking Stormy, I think that she shouldn’t be fucking him! Like, if you fuck a republican you should go to jail. Ya know?
Rob: (laughs)
Okay!
Zak: I mean, you don’t let them have any, under any circumstances.
Rob: Oh really, that’s good. It’s a moral thing.
Zak: Like it’s really more embarrassment to her than to anybody else.
Rob: Ahhh.
So you’re basis for, you’re not shaming her, but your basis for criticizing her is because of–
Zak: Nah, I mean, I’m not knocking her hustle I’m just saying that it’s more embarrassing for her than him.
Rob: Do you think she got paid at the time of the act?
Zak: I have no idea. But I do think that like, it’s more embarrassing for her than him.
Rob: Can we, like, walk outside in the hall or something, there’s way too much noise here.
(Rob and Zak walk through rooms to find a place to chat, they find a secluded hotel bedroom)
(Zak sits down on the bed)
Rob: Alright! Interviewing a porn star on a bed. (laughs) In the Hard Rock!
Um, so Zak, yeah, um, anyways like we were saying, if they were going to like, sledgehammer her because she was fucking Donald Trump, but it’s like, I personally, I–
Zak: I just think it has nothing to do with being a slut, it’s just don’t fuck republicans if you can avoid it. Ya know? And if it comes out that you did, that’s embarrassing.
Rob: Alright.
Zak: Ya know but– (unintelligible)
Rob: Huh. Um, yeah I mean she, she, was like mainstream for a minute there, she started out as a stripper, she got into–
Zak: Operation Desert Stormy.
Rob: she what?
Zak: Operation Desert Stormy! That’s when she was (unintelligible)
Rob: Okay, with Pornocopia.
About the time she was doing the– in 2006?
Zak: It was about that time, 2006 or 2007, it must have been.
Rob: She might not have mentioned that I interviewed her in the office of a De Ja Vu in I think 2008, and she talked about Pornocopia at the time, and uh, she was very, she was a really good interview and everything but um, let’s go out in the hallway.. can we?
Zak: What?
Rob: Can we go out in the hallway?
Zak: Absolutely!
(Rob and Zak walk down the hallway looking for a spot to continue the interview)
Rob: Alright, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so anyway, yeah this is actually better. This is better.
But, oh, yea, this is perfect actually the light is perfect here, thanks, god there was a lot to talk about but uh I just wanted a little bit better level of privacy because if you said something over there in front of everybody in the media nerve center it might get out somehow (laughs) Ya know, that’s my paranoia, it might get out before I can release it on Vimeo, or whatever. Um, yeah but you were saying some good stuff about the uh how the uh kind of office politics of the industry when it came to um big famous uh James Dean, and you had kind of a running battle with him because you’ve written about him after the (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Zak: I mean we only ran into each other a few times but um we never liked each other uh, we never got along, and then, and I was friendly with a lot of people who had gotten a lot of shit from him over the years, people who had ya know, he had, somebody, which who wishes to remain anonymous, he broke her nose during a scene, ya know like?
Rob: Really? He punched her in the face?
Zak: No it was just, Pushed her into a wall I think.
Rob: Oh, wow.
Zak: And ya know, I had just heard so many stories from people after the fact, and we did not get along, and we had gotten into like a physical altercation one AVN.
Rob: And you had told me about that in the elevator, he was editing a video–
Zak: He was editing a Burning Angel video and I hadn’t done the scene the way– it was a shitty day on set and he was just mad, he was like, “You, you could be big but you’re not doing the right shit.” And he wanted to like, tell me a bunch of shit, and I was just like leave me alone.
Rob: Like control freak stuff?
Zak: That’s, I mean that’s the impression that everyone has, that like, when he started working at Burning Angel, or started dating Joanna, he sort of took over, um, and he would boss people around and was like people who didn’t think that they were– They had come over to be in a movie directed by Joanna and then James would sort of take over. Um, and he had, ya know so I had– when all this shit came out which was when I finally accused him, I was asked to write an article for a big magazine because most poor people don’t want to talk to the mainstream press so I was like, Okay, I can do that. Um, and I talked to just, mostly started with people I know, who had already had stories and I worked out from there, um, and everybody said basically the same thing, and then I found out like extra weird stuff like everybody’s story involved food.
Rob: Yeah, you said he had a food trigger.
Zak: Yeah, like I mean, it was that or just like– he would ask this girl for like a burrito and she would get the wrong burrito and he would throw sandwiches across the room, and he wanted a very specific yogurt and he would throw a fit if he didn’t get it. And girls came over to shoot a scene and it was like a stoner scene, and he was like, “You can eat anything in the kitchen but don’t eat these girl scout cookies.” And then he fucking ate the girl scout cookies, or someone else, one of the girls–
Rob: She did, she ate the last one, don’t ever eat the last thing of anything–
Zak: somebody ate the last of the girl scout cookies– and he just threw an insane fit and was yelling at everyone, but like consistently that, like um, and so ya know, so I wrote that article and it got a lot of play at the time because even though the mainstream outlet was like, “Well this is — It’s got too much legal stuff in it for us to handle.” Um, and he’s not– “Neither the victims nor him are enough of–” Ya know, the mainstream press don’t give that much of a shit about what happens to porn people–
Rob: It’s newsworthy, but it’s not that big.
Zak: Yeah, and so I did it, and I got a kill fee from them which was a fine kill fee, and ya know big magazines like that kill half their stories ya know right before– they have an editor–
Rob: Legal department.
Zak: Legal but also like, you have sub-editors and they commission a bunch of stuff and they have enough money that they then curate out of that, ya know, the next editor up, and so they killed that story but then uh, I just put it up on Medium, because I had enough, I mean there was just so much stuff. And then it, ya know it got boing-boinged and then filtered I think and all that, ya know like people were like oh, shit, this is what happened. And nobody has contradicted anything like nobody has said any– nobody has taken back anything, ya know like I have the old texts–
Rob: So you haven’t heard from him?
Zak: Of course not, like we don’t talk, um–
Rob: Right.
So he didn’t try to refute it, he didn’t try to tell you, “Hey, you shouldn’t do that.”
Zak: That isn’t how you– I mean no matter whether you did it or not that’s not how you deal with these things, you just say “It’s all bullshit.” and stay quiet.
Rob: Let it go away.
Zak: and show up and ya know, check–
Rob: Because I noticed when it came out in December of 2015, the two stories that I read about at first, did not in any way include James Dean, there was never any attempt– it looked like at least to me, to include his side of story and I thought it was a little odd, but then I don’t know maybe you do things a little differently in the adult industry.
Zak: No, it’s just that you don’t talk to the press period. I mean I think that if you’re an accused person, like, whether he did anything bad or not, it makes sense that you wouldn’t talk to the press, you know?
Rob: But you know how often there’s that part in the story where you know, we tried to contact blah blah blah, so and so, or his office and we haven’t heard back from them at press time.
(Zak adjusts himself in the frame)
Rob: It’s a wide angle, so you don’t have to worry about it (laughs)
(unintelligible)
Zak: Yeah that’s cool, that’s cool.
Rob: But anyway it seemed like they just– it kind of– and don’t get me wrong, it kind of seemed like a hatchet job at the time, Like they were just– they were gonna get this guy with this article. And he was being called the Bill Cosby of porn, ya know? At the same time Bill Cosby was in the news for–
Zak: Well that was the last story, but I mean, for– my feeling is that that is strange because most of those (unintelligible) that you would say would be doing a hatchet job were the ones who kind of had (unintelligible) to help in the first place. So I don’t think that– a lot of them were not incentivized to write a mean story about him because they were the ones who had written the first few big stories about him, uh, that’s pretty counterintuitive. Like, Joanna Angel was saying in the story like after they broke up, and they would be doing a story on James, like some big magazine, like Rolling Stone or something would call her up and be like “Hey, can you tell us about James?” and she’s like, “I don’t wanna talk about it, it was horrible.” And they would say, “Well, ya know James says nice things about you, and we’re working on a story–” They just didn’t wanna hear it. So, it doesn’t make sense to me to suggest that all these news were– Because basically the story that I wrote about is the media was wrong like on a big scale, like they had– do what they periodically do where they choose one or two porn people, and now it’s going to be Stormy’s turn, to represent the whole industry, and what goes on in the industry. And they had chosen James, and what they had chosen James to say was to pin all of their sex-positive stories around James, and to pin their stories about how women do really like to watch porn, these young women, on James. And so instead of like reporting the whole story and the variety of like the different ways that women interact with porn, they just wrote a story about James. And so, it’s embarrassing to then have to reverse that, like there isn’t there were not people who were incentivized to write a hatchet job about him, um, it so– I think that that’s not how it seemed to be. It seemed to me that everything I had been hearing for years finally came out.
Rob: Makes sense.
Zak: I mean the people that I quoted in that article– none of them will say anything different than what they said in there, everything’s triple sourced.
Rob: Yeah– no, no it all seemed valid. Especially the way– the origin of it, with uh, Stoya making that one line or two tweet comment on Twitter, I mean it just seemed like a valid thing that a girl would say who had been screwed over by a really popular guy, it could be anybody, it could be the high school quarterback, ya know, back in high school. Just, some really popular dude, and she just doesn’t like– she was having a hard time seeing people treat him with popularity when she knew a different side of him, and then she went public with him and it kind of snowballed into a huge story, just like that, because there was a lot of other people that backed it up.
Zak: Because a lot of people backed it up and also because ya know she’s as popular as him.
Rob: Oh, yeah! No, she’s amazing. Let’s talk about her a little bit. You’ve worked with her before and then um, and she’s like a really artistic really high intellect kinda broad, huh? I mean she’s like, she’s kinda special. She’s like uh, she’s pretty unique, ya know? When it comes to like–
Zak: Yeah I mean but you’re asking me to say nice things about my friend, which I can do all day. And we’re friends.
Rob: Yeah (laughs) I know.
Well, I’m kind of a fan, I’ve been reading her, I’ve been reading her stories.
Zak: We worked together– like I did– she’s been a subject in paintings and ya know drawings I’ve done, like, you know–
Rob: Oh really?!
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Oh wow.
Zak: I did (unintelligible) drawings–
Rob: Did you really?
Zak: Yeah like it’s one drawing of–
Rob: Oh wow.
Zak: Yeah, also she is– she has her reservations about the mainstream industry and the attention that she got about that, and I don’t want to make that worse in any way, or kind of like you know–
Rob: She’s kind of doing her own thing now?
Zak: Yeah, she wants to do her own thing, and I think she, I mean, I don’t want to speak too much for her but I feel like, you know, I support what she’s doing and I feel like she’s a person who– she’s smart and at this point successful enough that she can say what’s really on her mind, you know? She doesn’t have to say certain things in order for the industry to accept her. She’s like– you know like there are people who are smart but they’re in a position where if they are critical it could get them in trouble. And she’s past that, and so, she’s uh–like, basically when she says something you know it’s trustworthy. And she’s branching out and doing other things– she was just in a play.
Rob: Mhmm– in New York.
Zak: Ya know– she’s doing stuff, so– I mean I feel like, I guess I would say, I don’t wanna be (unintelligible) interview for her–
Rob: Sure.
Zak: But I do think that like she’s kind of like along with someone like Nina Hartley. These are like best case scenarios, these are like if you were making a documentary about like the range of experiences in porn like these are people who kept their shit together, you know? And were, they were like smart people.
Rob: Yeah.
Zak: You know like, me and Ella Darling were in the press room and somebody was trying to get their press credentials and talking about the Tech Center, and he was like, “Errr I need to talk to somebody about VR porn.” And I was like, “You wanna talk about VR? Go talk to Ella!” And Ella just like gave this guy like you know, crypto, and block chains and he was just asking these super technical questions and she just knew it all. And it’s like there are a few people in porn that are just like, they’re everything that you’re supposed to be, you know what I mean, their– and Stoya is like one of those people, she’s like– an impressive person all around.
Rob: Absolutely. You touched on two things just now, because when I met you it was in the line to get our press credentials the other night here, and you surprised me (unintelligible) you were the guy that was in that one video that Bob Guccione uh building a (unintelligible) in Croatia– With Stoya. So, I’d like to hear about that, but I’d also like to hear about um, I mean you can do either one first, about your career as a painter or your work as a painter, because you’re not just a full-time porn dude. (laughs)
Zak: No, no I’m not a full-time porn dude by any means, uh, I’ve done relatively few movies compared to most people, um–
Rob: How old were you when you sold your first painting?
Zak: When I sold– I sold when I was in college so– probably–
Rob: What was it of?
Zak: It was a girl.
Rob: Okay, Nude?
Zak: Yeah, um it was to the woman who worked across the street at the financial desk at the college, uh, but yeah I don’t know I was in college I was like 19 or 20.
Rob: Which college?
Zak: Cooper Union, at the time.
Rob: Okay.
Zak: Um, but yeah so Stoya calls me up and she’s like “Well, how do you feel about going to Croatia?” and I’m like “I feel good.” And she’s like, “How do you feel about trespassing?” And I’m like, “I love trespassing.”
Um, so Bob Guccione had built in the 70’s, late 70’s, this place called the Haludovo hotel, and if you google it it’s this gorgeous modernist building, crazy architecture, it’s a big casino hotel. It was Yugoslavia at the time. And his idea was he was going to sort of end communist– he was going to bring down the Berlin wall somehow by having this great fabulous casino hotel, and all of the communist leaders would come and all of the girls working there would be Penthouse pets, and they would see that capitalism is wonderful and that west and east can work together. And it kind of worked in that Tito and Sadam Husein and other communist leaders did actually come to the Haludovo and hang out for a few years, but the labor laws were pretty intense, um, so it was hard to make a lot of money out of there because of the taxes. And another rule apparently that was every single business decision had to be ratified by the entire staff. So, the penthouse pets kept having to fly back to Yugoslavia to vote on whether they should change the janitor or whatever. Um, and so eventually someone else bought it, and then during the break-up of Yugoslavia, it got turned into a refugee camp basically. So people would flee ya know the fighting and they would go into this hotel and it was like this giant complex, and they would just rip the copper out of the walls, rip the plumbing out, and they were just like trying to live– you know, basically just like in the forest– so like you know?
Rob: So it went from like being a glamour spot to a total dystopian example of like the decline of civilization.
Zak: Exactly! and then you know of course that’s a perfect tumblr bait. Ya know, it became this beautiful piece of ruin porn. You just see this tumbled down building.
Rob: So it was tumbled down porn?
Zak: Yeah, you know, it was a ruined– it was sort of a picturesque ruin.
Rob: What was the name of it again?
Zak: The Haludovo hotel.
Rob: Haludovo.
Zak: H-A-L-U-D-O-V-O.
Rob: And that’s in Belgrade?
Zak: No, it’s outside of Belgrade in this sort of resort town called Krk. Um, and– so we got in there, but of course it’s not on the map, because it’s not an active business, it’s a ruin, and so– and Stoya was really sick that day and we only had one day to shoot, so I put her up in the hotel and I’m like, “Okay, I’ll go find this place, and you stay here and get well, hopefully, we’ll be able to shoot in the morning.”
So, I go out, and I’m looking and I’m looking and I’m looking, and I find a building that like kind of looks like the tumblr pictures I’ve seen, um, and I’m looking for ways in–I’m like–
“Okay, so this parts boarded up if I get this screwdriver I can get in here– I might be able to climb up this tree and get on the roof and maybe shoot a scene on the roof.”
And I was like, “Is this really the place?”
Because it looks smaller in the pictures. I assume that they had just knocked down the stuff around it after you know people found out about it on the internet, you know? And so I was looking through the windows, and it said– Like there was a big 70’s office and there and like an old typewritten binder and it said: “Haludovo Hotel” like pressed right up against the glass. So I was like, “Okay, this is the place.”
I get back to the hotel, and you know, she’s sick. And then like, I’m looking in the middle of the night, I’m still looking on the internet, and I’m like, “This place is like fifteen building complex, there must be more to it than this.”
So in the middle of the night, I’m like, “Stoya, I think I missed something.”
And she’s like, “Yeah?”
And I’m like, “Yeah. Like, let’s go back out, and there may be more to it than this further into the woods.”
So we got back out in the middle of the night and we’re using our like, cell phone as flashlights. And we’re looking around, as soon as I see a little like ya know, concrete cabana, like a little modern building–
She’s like, “I think that’s it.”
And I’m like, “Okay.”
So this is like a part of the beach complex.
and she’s like, “We’ll come back later.”
And I’m like, “No! Let’s, see more!”
And she’s like, “I’m scared!”
You know like the whole– it was very X-Files.
Rob: (Laughs)
Zak: So we’re going through there, and we’re going up the path and we start seeing like more and more ruined buildings, and then like– makes glass cracking sound effect We’re just like stepping on glass, and you look up and there’s this like huge canopy over this swimming pool, you can look up this swimming pool online, it’s just this massive pool with this huge glass thing over it–
And I’m like, “There it is!”
And we sneak in and then we see this like amazing lobby, like with these huge– you can’t tell what they are now but they are like these big circular shapes that look like this alien spaceship, but it was the bar in the middle, and then all of these like booths around it. And then– it was this like totally crazy place. So we’re like, “Okay, we’ll come back in the morning.”
Um, hopefully before dawn– no cops, ya know? We’re hoping. You could hear dogs barking and —
So we come back in the morning, get ready, and we shoot the scene, and like, we’re having sex and she’s like– “I hear something, it sounds like footsteps.”
It’s coming from the direction that we came. So we like, get dressed, and like move– we couldn’t go back out the way we came because that’s where the footsteps are coming from, so we go deeper into the complex, and it’s huge! Like if you imagine, like, a whole hotel, like this hotel we’re in– every single room, everything is torn apart. Not one chair left, not one faucet left.
Rob: The refugees were complete.
Zak: Yeah! I mean like it has just been sitting there and they were ya know, trying to live. So, like, just like, it’s hard to imagine like, every single room trashed to this degree like it’s like way more than Silent Hill or anything like that it was like every room, nothing left. So we’re going in on this like old ruined carpet and after like 20 minutes I’m just like trying to get away from the footsteps. I’m like, “Okay, we have to get out of here.”
Like we can’t just go deeper and deeper in. And she’s like, “Alright.”
So we peek out, and it’s a fucking deer. (laughs)
Rob: Wow. Like a female deer, a doe?
Zak: Yeah a doe, a deer, a female deer. (Laughs)
Rob: Wow, that’s crazy.
Zak: yeah.
Rob: And so you guys were all scared for nothing, did you like laugh about it and have more sex afterward?
Zak: Yeah! Well I mean, yes. But–
Rob: In the place, or later? (Laughs)
Zak: I mean if I remember correctly we had sex there again.
Rob: Nice, nice, so that was for her website?
Zak: Yeah, because she was doing this series about having sex in different places, Like, Stoya around the world. So she was going to different places.
Rob: Around the world in 80 ways? I think it’s called.
Zak: Something like that.
Rob: It’s a good idea.
Zak: Yeah, I mean she wanted to do things on her own terms. You know, she’s done with doing like regular scenes. She was like, “I want things to be real.” You know, like her own thing.
Rob: Like an adventure.
Zak: Yeah, exactly, I mean it was.
Rob: Reality adventure.
Zak: We did a bunch of stuff like that, you know, we went to Athens, um, and you know we shot one in the presidential suite in the Palace Hotel over there.
Rob: Oh, you did two then? Okay.
Zak: I mean we did a bunch, the main one was the Haludovo because that was going to be the hard one. But the other ones were just like, you know we went to places that were going to be easy to get to from there, like (unintelligible)
Rob: Did she, don’t mean to sidetrack here, but did she get, uh, discovered in Philadelphia?
Zak: I don’t know exactly, and if she was on the east coast, I know she had bounced around different cities there but I’m not sure like which one was her–
Rob: Alright. So right now you’re based in L.A. and you’re painting out there– or you do some painting every now and then.
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Um, do you have a studio in the Hollywood area, or down at the beach, where are you?
Zak: Downtown, I mean I–
Rob: Downtown? Oh, the warehouse district?
Zak: Yeah, yeah. The arts district, yeah.
Rob: Big place, small place?
Zak: Yeah, I mean it’s like– a lot of artists– like I’ve never had a separate studio because I like to wake up and get reminded that my painting looks bad.
Rob: That’s what I figured, yeah, you have a live-work space, right?
Zak: Yeah. But a lot of people like to have a separate place, and but they’re always like– when I talk to them they’re always like, “Oh, I need to get into the studio more.” And I’m like, “I’m always in the studio.”
You know?
Rob: Uh-huh.
Zak: And also like, it’s good for shooting because it’s a big open loft. So it’s like it’s a big multi-space essentially you know if you want to take photos you know or–
Rob: I do, thanks! Is that an invitation?
Zak: I mean, I–
Rob: That would be awesome.
Zak: I mean I don’t turn down press I suppose.
Rob: Alright.
Zak: You know like when people come over it’s a good place to have a party, it’s good to you know– when my ex was camming, it’s a good place to cam. You know, it’s a big– we’re artists so–
Rob: I’ve shot there before, this one porn star when she was married to this one guy who was a fashion designer guy they had an upstairs, it was a really dingy place but it was like really cool, and it was like–
Zak: That’s downtown L.A.
Rob: It was like the old downtown warehouse district and I guess upstairs there was lofts and stuff and you’d go up this rickety old staircase and they had a corridor that goes in that looks like it was built in the 1920’s.
Zak: It’s not half as rickety as New York, but it’s the closest that L.A. gets, ya know?
Rob: Okay, so you started in New York, in Brooklyn–
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: And uh, nice.
Zak: But yeah I was doing paintings then, I got out of grad school and then started– you know, I was back in New York, and uh, I guess, I kinda moved from like girls who I knew in art school who were like pro doms and like, nude models, then moved from there to like girls who were strippers, and then the strippers knew the porn girls and so I started painting the porn girls. And then eventually, you know, I did a couple movies and then you meet more porn people and you know?
Rob: You mean with like your subjects for painting?
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Awesome painting subjects, yeah.
Zak: yeah, but also it’s been interesting–
Rob: Working well?
Zak: yeah well the thing is– if you look at– I had my first show in 2002, and just the way that being naked on the internet, uh, was viewed then, and versus now. Like, how much it’s changed.
Rob: is there less stigma now?
Zak: I mean, yeah. But it’s also– less stigma, but just in terms of like the series, in the beginning, it was like, it was hard to find people, and they were very like– we both wanted to talk a lot first about what it was like, and it was kind of like a mystery. it was like a thing that was hidden, and there was less community, and uh, and less resources, and it was just like–
the series of paintings, of portraits and what they were about kind of changed because the world changed around them during that time. You know like– and now–
Rob: what year was that?
Zak: 2002 was my first show. So, like– nowadays it’s like not weird to have a– you know if you had said you were doing a painting series of porn stars, they’d be like, get in line, like who isn’t you know?
Rob: So funny. it’s true.
Zak: The first time I came to Suicide Girls. Uh, I was talking to the people at Suicide Girls. You know, Sean was like there’s a lot of people doing this but you’re good at it, you know? Like he liked me and he was kind of like, “Yeah, if you want to paint some of the girls, cool.”
And I eventually got a suicide girl in the MOMA, so that was kind of a — Suicide Girl painting, in their collection. So that was kind of a big deal for them. But it has been strange watching something like something that I was doing as a project for me turn into something that like everyone has fan art, they have 300 pictures of themselves.
Rob: Oh, right, it’s a whole fan art thing.
Zak: Now I’m a Disney Princess. Now I’m a frog. Now I’m a mermaid, you know? Like, it’s normal. And so when you write to somebody that you don’t know and you’re like, “Hey, I want to do a painting of you.” They’re like, “Phfff, go ahead.”
Rob: You know, you’re right the whole Stormy Daniels thing would have been such a scandal like 20 years ago, and now it’s not really a scandal.
Zak: Or, I mean it might not– part of it is that and part of it is just that like, there is nothing about Donald Trump that is not a scandal.
Rob: Right! I mean it’s like, his wife was an ex-nude model, you know and it’s like– everything has gotten so mainstream and porn is EVERYWHERE. And the youtube is having to make that AV law, age verification law, to make it impossible to access online content that is not behind a paywall, without– the way I understand it the law reads– they’re going to make it, even like the samples, you have to do a 3 step verification, you have to send in an I.D., you have to give them a credit card, which is to I.D. your name, and you have to– I don’t know, swear on a holy bible that you’re over 18 or something. But it’s like–
Zak: England doesn’t need more blue laws. I mean it’s already such a messed up place. laughs
Rob: But they’re doing that! So that will affect the big tube sites and then it will carry on down to everyone else, so hopefully, maybe they are saying that the smaller sites will be able to make more money now because of– anyways getting back to what we were saying about your subject matter, um– great! I’m not familiar with your movies, I haven’t seen your paintings yet, but I would like to, and uh, maybe we could do like a profile on you in Reviewer Magazine, an artist profile. An erotic art profile.
Zak: Cool.
Rob: Um, I didn’t mean to cut you off when you were talking about Stoya, is there anything you would like to add about your friend Stoya and what she’s doing now with her projects?
Zak: Nah I mean, She can speak for herself if you have any specific questions.
Rob: Absolutely. Of course.
But you’re here at the Hard Rock Casino doing a story for a magazine on art, do you want to talk a little bit about that, or about porn?
Zak: Yeah, I mean I write for– I write a column for an art magazine that is like the big art magazine in L.A. and so they– I was talking to them about doing something about the AVN’s because I’ve already done AVN like as AVN, like I wrote a book about (unintelligible) porn.
Rob: You did?
Zak: Yeah, so I’m thinking about like–
Rob: What’s it called?
Zak: We did porn. Um–
Rob: Under your stage name or your real name?
Zak: I think it says “Zak Smith” and then in parenthesis, Zak Sabbath.
Rob: Ok. I’ll look it up.
Zak: It’s like one of those books that a lot of girls that are just like first getting into the industry– they are like, “Oh, I liked your book! It was–” You know?
Rob: Mhm.
Zak: So that’s nice, because it’s people who have– who are actually in porn, like it and get it, and that was important to me. Because I haven’t had a normal experience in porn, you know, like I had–
Rob: How so?
Zak: Well I mean I was never a full time dude, ya know like I never– I didn’t come out of school and not know what to do with my life and go do porn– like I was a well-known painter making rent just fine when I did my first movie so– I had an atyipcal experience, but you’re represnting other people– so I didn’t want to– even things like this make me a little nervous because I don’t want to act like I’m an expert but on the other hand I feel like– compared to a lot of people who have been in the industry like ten years, I don’t know shit, but at the same time like I feel like I have a perspective of what it’s like to not be in the industry– and be able to explain to people in a way that people find helpful, like– a year or two ago when there was the whole condoms in porn law and everbody in porn basically– 60 people or whatever, went up to Osha in Oakland and was explang how the condom law wasn’t actually that helpful to us and it wasn’t really great for performers, and it wasn’t really about the condoms it was about like the way their law was written which was really sloppy. So performer after performer got up and talked about it, but I got up there was like, “Listen, like my girlfriend at the time, like, every pre-existing condition she has is tattooed on my arm. Like nobody is more– like she’s chronically ill, ya know? Nobody is more worried about safety on set than she is. like she is somebody who like does less scenes and makes less money because of how she was worried about getting sick. And this law and the way that it’s written doesn’t help. The way the law was written it’s so sloppy that like– if you’re shooting in Hollywood, and you’re shooting a movie where anywhere in the movie it’s implied that Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan have sex– like even if it’s not explicit. If that happens, and then like Meg Ryan puts a cigarette in Tom Hanks mouth of feeds him some cake, then that’s technically– there’s sex in the movie or simulated sex and there’s penetration of an orifice with an object. That means that Tom Hanks has to wear a dental dam and goggles and all that.
Rob: I heard that they call that the mainstream movie exclusion clause or something like that.
Zak: well there was no clause! At least at the time when we were–, there was nothing like that, it was so sloppily written.
Rob: Oh, okay.
Zak: And I went to fucking Yale, I read the law. I read the text, I read the fucking, you know– I read the legal– I read the legal– the documents that the other documents were based on.
Rob: You went to Yale to read the law?
Zak: No, I went to– that’s where I–
Rob: You attended Yale?
Zak: Yeah, I was a grad student. Um, and so I got up there , and even though a lot of performers who were veterans like had said shit, I was like I looked at the (law making person?) and explained it like, “Here is the law that you wrote, here are the rules, here is like, the situation that we are in.”
Like, it says producer, “Do you know what a porn producer is? No one in this room knows what a porn producer is.”
A guy who says, “I want a video of you eating a chicken and masturbating, I’ll give you 75 bucks for that.”
Technically that guy is a porn producer. ya know like some random fan. A porn producer has to have your medical records for 50 years? So that means if somebody wanted to hire you to do a one-off video that you send to them only for them, a custom video, you have to give them your medical records complete and they have to hold them for 50 years. Like, the law was just not written– (unintelligible)
Rob: It’s not realistic.
Zak: Yeah, and I was up there like, I–
Rob: Was that intentional? Were they trying to be overly (unintelligible) to kill the porn industry? Or were they just being dumb dicks?
Zak: Um, it was a combination of both because the AIDS organization, the AIDS healthcare foundation– even within the HIV positive community, is not a well-respected organization. They’re kind of a– they’re opportunists, lke they’ve widely been kind of, uh, you know they’re in it for the grant money, they’re in it for the people who run it to sort of get status as you know important non-profit people and they don’t really seem to give a shit about the actual spread of aids, for example, the PrEP drug which is like very effective at preventing AIDS, and you like pop it and like you know– They wanna kill PrEP because that’s like a bold headline-grabbing stand that they can take, like, “It’s not condoms! Shouldn’t worry about!”
And it’s like, why not do both? Ya know like, we’re all making porn why isn’t PrEP necessary? Why isn’t PrEP a rule in porn? Like, we’rea ll having sex without condoms like we’re all getting tested once a month or– every few weeks, so why not take PrEP? because the AIDS healthcare foundation doesn’t give a shit, and so they and their lawyers wrote the law. Part of it was to become burdensome on porn and then they could grab headlines like, “AIDS healthcare foundation has kicked porn out of California! Now it’s only in Nevada.”
And part of it was because they weren’t really paying that much attention, and they didn’t think that we would take it on. And so, on the one hand, yeah I haven’t done as many films as a lot of people walking around this hotel. But on the other hand, I feel like because I have been spending so much time talking to the academic world, talking to fine art people, like just having a normal-er life in some ways, like, I can translate a little bit? And that kind of comes up.
Rob: And how did you get pulled into this (Tawdry business, what was your “entree”?
Zak: Like, the weirdest thing ever– I had done– Thomas Pynchon wrote a novel called Gravity’s Rainbow, and I did a picture for every single page of that novel because it was one of my favorite books, um, So I drew a picture for every page of Gravity’s Rainbow, and then a little bit after, because I was also doing these portraits of porn people– I was interviewing some porn people and talking about it, and then a year later- this guy I never met, I just did a phone interview, um, he said you know, “It would be mean a lot to me if I could use those pictures in a movie because I love that book, and I want to make an autobiography porn movie.”
This was like the early 2000’s when there was like a lot of sort of arty porn before the big internet crash killed everything ya know? But the big companies like Larry Flynt and VIvid and VCA were just throwing away– out money on weird movies, ya know during the early 2002-3-4-5. And So this guy was like, “Yeah, I want to make an arty autobiographical porn, and I want to include those pictures.”
And I was like, “Sure.”
And I said, “And it would mean a lot to me if I could fuck all of the girls in the movie.”
And he was like, “Ha-ha!”
“Well I mean send me pictures, ya know, like I kinda need a punk for the thing, because ya know, I don’t wanna use this other dude”
-Who’s the only other guy in the industry who had that weird hair.”
So I sent him pictures and he was like, “Yeah, your hired.”
And so, I did that first movie called Barbwire Kiss and then, you know, at that point some of the girls were like. “Oh, Zak is talent now.”
and so I got hired on some more stuff. Guys always fall into porn ass-backward, it’s always some kind of joke.
Rob: Oh really, how so?
Zak: yeah, it always starts with somebody being like, “Hey! What if I did that?”
And then somebody’s like, “Sure?”
Ya know?
Rob: Hmm. Well, um, I appreciate the uh, the fact that you have been so open with Reviewer magazine, thank you Zak, and uh looking forward to seeing more of your work, when I’m in L.A. I’ like to check out your paintings and stuff and um–
Zak: If you want to see the originals most of them are in New York in my gallery, so if you get to New York then there ya go.
Rob: In your gallery?!
Zak: the gallery that represents me. I don’t own it.
Rob: One day, one day.
Nice. Nice, nice, nice. Good. Thank you, thank you very much.
Zak: No problem.
Rob: And yeah, we’ll talk again soon.
Zak: alright, sweet.
Zak: Everybody’s wearing fake eyelashes, and Everybody’s wearing tons of makeup. Everybody like, takes a long time to get ready, and then at night everybody just gets fucked up.
Rob: (laughs)
Do they?
Zak: Well, not everybody, but it’s like, it’s kind of a battle between like, trying to be good and get up on top.
Rob: Yeah.
Zak: And do everything right, And then on the other hand try and be like, you’re in Vegas and people keep asking you to come out and be like, “Hang out!” and “Go to the club!” And so, the battle to stay beautiful is kind of like (unintelligible)
Rob: Is a pressure to also like, live the lifestyle? A lot of people have to be edgy and they have to go out and get drunk, and you know?
Zak: I think it’s less abstract than that, it’s just like, people do wanna have fun and they also, people always like, wanna hang out, and so, they wanna hang out with their friends, so, you know. It’s very edgy by default, rather than uh–
Rob: (Laughs)
Edgy by default. (Unintelligible)
Zak: (to an approaching man) Steve!
Rob: (to Steve) Hey how’s it going?
Zak: (to Rob) This is Steve.
Rob: Hi Steve, I’m Rob, nice to meet you.
Zak: I’m just doing an interview. With a photographer. Freelance. He came here for Hustler and Inked.
Rob: Very cool.
Zak: And like, he’ll do whatever.
(Unintelligible conversation)
Rob: I like the lighting. We’re here, we’re here with Zak Sabbath, and this is our Reviewer Magazine at the A.E.E. expo 2018, this is January 2018, and um, Stormy Daniels is a big, uh, issue right now in the press because of her uh, (Unintelligible) So yeah, um, Stormy Daniels, I mean the porn has gotten so mainstream, Stormy Daniels, um was like head or tails, is she going to affect the 2016 election or not? What’s your take on the whole Stormy Daniels, um, issue right now, Zak?
Zak: I mean I don’t think it, it doesn’t do much for the president, I mean he could really, like, he could fuck a goat on the white house lawn and no one would care. Um, but I think it does, It does affect how you think about porn because, it basically, I mean for anybody who looks at internet traffic knows that most internet traffic is porn, so for a while it’s become obvious that like, porn is sort of the thing that’s always there and not talked about, you know? That a lot of people are participating in, they’re watching, and they’re not talking about it, um, at least they’re not talking about it as like a normal thing, as like a healthy thing. (unintelligible) And I think that Trump fucking porn stars is one of those things were it’s just one more brick in the wall, you know, or out of the wall I guess, where it just, it’s not just the mainstreaming of porn, it’s the mainstreaming of like, even people who are supposed to be conservative or republican have to eventually admit that they’re okay with it, and that, they are bringing it into other peoples lives, into the news, they’re making a thing of it, ya know?
Rob: I think it’s like, because everybody who runs, every man or woman now, who runs for the presidency has to get the approval of the religious right, it’s more of a commentary on them and American society because, Billy Grahams son was validating what happened and saying, “Hey, that was years ago, and it was a alleged!” And he was totally, like, this guys an evangelical preacher! And he was excusing the president for the whole thing.
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: I have no problem with it, you have no problem with it. Everybody in this hotel has no problem with it. Some married guy, married billionaire fucking a porn star, it’s like, good for him, right?
Zak: I mean I do have a problem with it because Stormy should not be fucking Donald Trump.
Rob: Ohh, really?
Zak: I mean I’m not– I don’t think that Donald Trump shouldn’t be fucking Stormy, I think that she shouldn’t be fucking him! Like, if you fuck a republican you should go to jail. Ya know?
Rob: (laughs)
Okay!
Zak: I mean, you don’t let them have any, under any circumstances.
Rob: Oh really, that’s good. It’s a moral thing.
Zak: Like it’s really more embarrassment to her than to anybody else.
Rob: Ahhh.
So you’re basis for, you’re not shaming her, but your basis for criticizing her is because of–
Zak: Nah, I mean, I’m not knocking her hustle I’m just saying that it’s more embarrassing for her than him.
Rob: Do you think she got paid at the time of the act?
Zak: I have no idea. But I do think that like, it’s more embarrassing for her than him.
Rob: Can we, like, walk outside in the hall or something, there’s way too much noise here.
(Rob and Zak walk through rooms to find a place to chat, they find a secluded hotel bedroom)
(Zak sits down on the bed)
Rob: Alright! Interviewing a porn star on a bed. (laughs) In the Hard Rock!
Um, so Zak, yeah, um, anyways like we were saying, if they were going to like, sledgehammer her because she was fucking Donald Trump, but it’s like, I personally, I–
Zak: I just think it has nothing to do with being a slut, it’s just don’t fuck republicans if you can avoid it. Ya know? And if it comes out that you did, that’s embarrassing.
Rob: Alright.
Zak: Ya know but– (unintelligible)
Rob: Huh. Um, yeah I mean she, she, was like mainstream for a minute there, she started out as a stripper, she got into–
Zak: Operation Desert Stormy.
Rob: she what?
Zak: Operation Desert Stormy! That’s when she was (unintelligible)
Rob: Okay, with Pornocopia.
About the time she was doing the– in 2006?
Zak: It was about that time, 2006 or 2007, it must have been.
Rob: She might not have mentioned that I interviewed her in the office of a De Ja Vu in I think 2008, and she talked about Pornocopia at the time, and uh, she was very, she was a really good interview and everything but um, let’s go out in the hallway.. can we?
Zak: What?
Rob: Can we go out in the hallway?
Zak: Absolutely!
(Rob and Zak walk down the hallway looking for a spot to continue the interview)
Rob: Alright, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so anyway, yeah this is actually better. This is better.
But, oh, yea, this is perfect actually the light is perfect here, thanks, god there was a lot to talk about but uh I just wanted a little bit better level of privacy because if you said something over there in front of everybody in the media nerve center it might get out somehow (laughs) Ya know, that’s my paranoia, it might get out before I can release it on Vimeo, or whatever. Um, yeah but you were saying some good stuff about the uh how the uh kind of office politics of the industry when it came to um big famous uh James Dean, and you had kind of a running battle with him because you’ve written about him after the (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
Zak: I mean we only ran into each other a few times but um we never liked each other uh, we never got along, and then, and I was friendly with a lot of people who had gotten a lot of shit from him over the years, people who had ya know, he had, somebody, which who wishes to remain anonymous, he broke her nose during a scene, ya know like?
Rob: Really? He punched her in the face?
Zak: No it was just, Pushed her into a wall I think.
Rob: Oh, wow.
Zak: And ya know, I had just heard so many stories from people after the fact, and we did not get along, and we had gotten into like a physical altercation one AVN.
Rob: And you had told me about that in the elevator, he was editing a video–
Zak: He was editing a Burning Angel video and I hadn’t done the scene the way– it was a shitty day on set and he was just mad, he was like, “You, you could be big but you’re not doing the right shit.” And he wanted to like, tell me a bunch of shit, and I was just like leave me alone.
Rob: Like control freak stuff?
Zak: That’s, I mean that’s the impression that everyone has, that like, when he started working at Burning Angel, or started dating Joanna, he sort of took over, um, and he would boss people around and was like people who didn’t think that they were– They had come over to be in a movie directed by Joanna and then James would sort of take over. Um, and he had, ya know so I had– when all this shit came out which was when I finally accused him, I was asked to write an article for a big magazine because most poor people don’t want to talk to the mainstream press so I was like, Okay, I can do that. Um, and I talked to just, mostly started with people I know, who had already had stories and I worked out from there, um, and everybody said basically the same thing, and then I found out like extra weird stuff like everybody’s story involved food.
Rob: Yeah, you said he had a food trigger.
Zak: Yeah, like I mean, it was that or just like– he would ask this girl for like a burrito and she would get the wrong burrito and he would throw sandwiches across the room, and he wanted a very specific yogurt and he would throw a fit if he didn’t get it. And girls came over to shoot a scene and it was like a stoner scene, and he was like, “You can eat anything in the kitchen but don’t eat these girl scout cookies.” And then he fucking ate the girl scout cookies, or someone else, one of the girls–
Rob: She did, she ate the last one, don’t ever eat the last thing of anything–
Zak: somebody ate the last of the girl scout cookies– and he just threw an insane fit and was yelling at everyone, but like consistently that, like um, and so ya know, so I wrote that article and it got a lot of play at the time because even though the mainstream outlet was like, “Well this is — It’s got too much legal stuff in it for us to handle.” Um, and he’s not– “Neither the victims nor him are enough of–” Ya know, the mainstream press don’t give that much of a shit about what happens to porn people–
Rob: It’s newsworthy, but it’s not that big.
Zak: Yeah, and so I did it, and I got a kill fee from them which was a fine kill fee, and ya know big magazines like that kill half their stories ya know right before– they have an editor–
Rob: Legal department.
Zak: Legal but also like, you have sub-editors and they commission a bunch of stuff and they have enough money that they then curate out of that, ya know, the next editor up, and so they killed that story but then uh, I just put it up on Medium, because I had enough, I mean there was just so much stuff. And then it, ya know it got boing-boinged and then filtered I think and all that, ya know like people were like oh, shit, this is what happened. And nobody has contradicted anything like nobody has said any– nobody has taken back anything, ya know like I have the old texts–
Rob: So you haven’t heard from him?
Zak: Of course not, like we don’t talk, um–
Rob: Right.
So he didn’t try to refute it, he didn’t try to tell you, “Hey, you shouldn’t do that.”
Zak: That isn’t how you– I mean no matter whether you did it or not that’s not how you deal with these things, you just say “It’s all bullshit.” and stay quiet.
Rob: Let it go away.
Zak: and show up and ya know, check–
Rob: Because I noticed when it came out in December of 2015, the two stories that I read about at first, did not in any way include James Dean, there was never any attempt– it looked like at least to me, to include his side of story and I thought it was a little odd, but then I don’t know maybe you do things a little differently in the adult industry.
Zak: No, it’s just that you don’t talk to the press period. I mean I think that if you’re an accused person, like, whether he did anything bad or not, it makes sense that you wouldn’t talk to the press, you know?
Rob: But you know how often there’s that part in the story where you know, we tried to contact blah blah blah, so and so, or his office and we haven’t heard back from them at press time.
(Zak adjusts himself in the frame)
Rob: It’s a wide angle, so you don’t have to worry about it (laughs)
(unintelligible)
Zak: Yeah that’s cool, that’s cool.
Rob: But anyway it seemed like they just– it kind of– and don’t get me wrong, it kind of seemed like a hatchet job at the time, Like they were just– they were gonna get this guy with this article. And he was being called the Bill Cosby of porn, ya know? At the same time Bill Cosby was in the news for–
Zak: Well that was the last story, but I mean, for– my feeling is that that is strange because most of those (unintelligible) that you would say would be doing a hatchet job were the ones who kind of had (unintelligible) to help in the first place. So I don’t think that– a lot of them were not incentivized to write a mean story about him because they were the ones who had written the first few big stories about him, uh, that’s pretty counterintuitive. Like, Joanna Angel was saying in the story like after they broke up, and they would be doing a story on James, like some big magazine, like Rolling Stone or something would call her up and be like “Hey, can you tell us about James?” and she’s like, “I don’t wanna talk about it, it was horrible.” And they would say, “Well, ya know James says nice things about you, and we’re working on a story–” They just didn’t wanna hear it. So, it doesn’t make sense to me to suggest that all these news were– Because basically the story that I wrote about is the media was wrong like on a big scale, like they had– do what they periodically do where they choose one or two porn people, and now it’s going to be Stormy’s turn, to represent the whole industry, and what goes on in the industry. And they had chosen James, and what they had chosen James to say was to pin all of their sex-positive stories around James, and to pin their stories about how women do really like to watch porn, these young women, on James. And so instead of like reporting the whole story and the variety of like the different ways that women interact with porn, they just wrote a story about James. And so, it’s embarrassing to then have to reverse that, like there isn’t there were not people who were incentivized to write a hatchet job about him, um, it so– I think that that’s not how it seemed to be. It seemed to me that everything I had been hearing for years finally came out.
Rob: Makes sense.
Zak: I mean the people that I quoted in that article– none of them will say anything different than what they said in there, everything’s triple sourced.
Rob: Yeah– no, no it all seemed valid. Especially the way– the origin of it, with uh, Stoya making that one line or two tweet comment on Twitter, I mean it just seemed like a valid thing that a girl would say who had been screwed over by a really popular guy, it could be anybody, it could be the high school quarterback, ya know, back in high school. Just, some really popular dude, and she just doesn’t like– she was having a hard time seeing people treat him with popularity when she knew a different side of him, and then she went public with him and it kind of snowballed into a huge story, just like that, because there was a lot of other people that backed it up.
Zak: Because a lot of people backed it up and also because ya know she’s as popular as him.
Rob: Oh, yeah! No, she’s amazing. Let’s talk about her a little bit. You’ve worked with her before and then um, and she’s like a really artistic really high intellect kinda broad, huh? I mean she’s like, she’s kinda special. She’s like uh, she’s pretty unique, ya know? When it comes to like–
Zak: Yeah I mean but you’re asking me to say nice things about my friend, which I can do all day. And we’re friends.
Rob: Yeah (laughs) I know.
Well, I’m kind of a fan, I’ve been reading her, I’ve been reading her stories.
Zak: We worked together– like I did– she’s been a subject in paintings and ya know drawings I’ve done, like, you know–
Rob: Oh really?!
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Oh wow.
Zak: I did (unintelligible) drawings–
Rob: Did you really?
Zak: Yeah like it’s one drawing of–
Rob: Oh wow.
Zak: Yeah, also she is– she has her reservations about the mainstream industry and the attention that she got about that, and I don’t want to make that worse in any way, or kind of like you know–
Rob: She’s kind of doing her own thing now?
Zak: Yeah, she wants to do her own thing, and I think she, I mean, I don’t want to speak too much for her but I feel like, you know, I support what she’s doing and I feel like she’s a person who– she’s smart and at this point successful enough that she can say what’s really on her mind, you know? She doesn’t have to say certain things in order for the industry to accept her. She’s like– you know like there are people who are smart but they’re in a position where if they are critical it could get them in trouble. And she’s past that, and so, she’s uh–like, basically when she says something you know it’s trustworthy. And she’s branching out and doing other things– she was just in a play.
Rob: Mhmm– in New York.
Zak: Ya know– she’s doing stuff, so– I mean I feel like, I guess I would say, I don’t wanna be (unintelligible) interview for her–
Rob: Sure.
Zak: But I do think that like she’s kind of like along with someone like Nina Hartley. These are like best case scenarios, these are like if you were making a documentary about like the range of experiences in porn like these are people who kept their shit together, you know? And were, they were like smart people.
Rob: Yeah.
Zak: You know like, me and Ella Darling were in the press room and somebody was trying to get their press credentials and talking about the Tech Center, and he was like, “Errr I need to talk to somebody about VR porn.” And I was like, “You wanna talk about VR? Go talk to Ella!” And Ella just like gave this guy like you know, crypto, and block chains and he was just asking these super technical questions and she just knew it all. And it’s like there are a few people in porn that are just like, they’re everything that you’re supposed to be, you know what I mean, their– and Stoya is like one of those people, she’s like– an impressive person all around.
Rob: Absolutely. You touched on two things just now, because when I met you it was in the line to get our press credentials the other night here, and you surprised me (unintelligible) you were the guy that was in that one video that Bob Guccione uh building a (unintelligible) in Croatia– With Stoya. So, I’d like to hear about that, but I’d also like to hear about um, I mean you can do either one first, about your career as a painter or your work as a painter, because you’re not just a full-time porn dude. (laughs)
Zak: No, no I’m not a full-time porn dude by any means, uh, I’ve done relatively few movies compared to most people, um–
Rob: How old were you when you sold your first painting?
Zak: When I sold– I sold when I was in college so– probably–
Rob: What was it of?
Zak: It was a girl.
Rob: Okay, Nude?
Zak: Yeah, um it was to the woman who worked across the street at the financial desk at the college, uh, but yeah I don’t know I was in college I was like 19 or 20.
Rob: Which college?
Zak: Cooper Union, at the time.
Rob: Okay.
Zak: Um, but yeah so Stoya calls me up and she’s like “Well, how do you feel about going to Croatia?” and I’m like “I feel good.” And she’s like, “How do you feel about trespassing?” And I’m like, “I love trespassing.”
Um, so Bob Guccione had built in the 70’s, late 70’s, this place called the Haludovo hotel, and if you google it it’s this gorgeous modernist building, crazy architecture, it’s a big casino hotel. It was Yugoslavia at the time. And his idea was he was going to sort of end communist– he was going to bring down the Berlin wall somehow by having this great fabulous casino hotel, and all of the communist leaders would come and all of the girls working there would be Penthouse pets, and they would see that capitalism is wonderful and that west and east can work together. And it kind of worked in that Tito and Sadam Husein and other communist leaders did actually come to the Haludovo and hang out for a few years, but the labor laws were pretty intense, um, so it was hard to make a lot of money out of there because of the taxes. And another rule apparently that was every single business decision had to be ratified by the entire staff. So, the penthouse pets kept having to fly back to Yugoslavia to vote on whether they should change the janitor or whatever. Um, and so eventually someone else bought it, and then during the break-up of Yugoslavia, it got turned into a refugee camp basically. So people would flee ya know the fighting and they would go into this hotel and it was like this giant complex, and they would just rip the copper out of the walls, rip the plumbing out, and they were just like trying to live– you know, basically just like in the forest– so like you know?
Rob: So it went from like being a glamour spot to a total dystopian example of like the decline of civilization.
Zak: Exactly! and then you know of course that’s a perfect tumblr bait. Ya know, it became this beautiful piece of ruin porn. You just see this tumbled down building.
Rob: So it was tumbled down porn?
Zak: Yeah, you know, it was a ruined– it was sort of a picturesque ruin.
Rob: What was the name of it again?
Zak: The Haludovo hotel.
Rob: Haludovo.
Zak: H-A-L-U-D-O-V-O.
Rob: And that’s in Belgrade?
Zak: No, it’s outside of Belgrade in this sort of resort town called Krk. Um, and– so we got in there, but of course it’s not on the map, because it’s not an active business, it’s a ruin, and so– and Stoya was really sick that day and we only had one day to shoot, so I put her up in the hotel and I’m like, “Okay, I’ll go find this place, and you stay here and get well, hopefully, we’ll be able to shoot in the morning.”
So, I go out, and I’m looking and I’m looking and I’m looking, and I find a building that like kind of looks like the tumblr pictures I’ve seen, um, and I’m looking for ways in–I’m like–
“Okay, so this parts boarded up if I get this screwdriver I can get in here– I might be able to climb up this tree and get on the roof and maybe shoot a scene on the roof.”
And I was like, “Is this really the place?”
Because it looks smaller in the pictures. I assume that they had just knocked down the stuff around it after you know people found out about it on the internet, you know? And so I was looking through the windows, and it said– Like there was a big 70’s office and there and like an old typewritten binder and it said: “Haludovo Hotel” like pressed right up against the glass. So I was like, “Okay, this is the place.”
I get back to the hotel, and you know, she’s sick. And then like, I’m looking in the middle of the night, I’m still looking on the internet, and I’m like, “This place is like fifteen building complex, there must be more to it than this.”
So in the middle of the night, I’m like, “Stoya, I think I missed something.”
And she’s like, “Yeah?”
And I’m like, “Yeah. Like, let’s go back out, and there may be more to it than this further into the woods.”
So we got back out in the middle of the night and we’re using our like, cell phone as flashlights. And we’re looking around, as soon as I see a little like ya know, concrete cabana, like a little modern building–
She’s like, “I think that’s it.”
And I’m like, “Okay.”
So this is like a part of the beach complex.
and she’s like, “We’ll come back later.”
And I’m like, “No! Let’s, see more!”
And she’s like, “I’m scared!”
You know like the whole– it was very X-Files.
Rob: (Laughs)
Zak: So we’re going through there, and we’re going up the path and we start seeing like more and more ruined buildings, and then like– makes glass cracking sound effect We’re just like stepping on glass, and you look up and there’s this like huge canopy over this swimming pool, you can look up this swimming pool online, it’s just this massive pool with this huge glass thing over it–
And I’m like, “There it is!”
And we sneak in and then we see this like amazing lobby, like with these huge– you can’t tell what they are now but they are like these big circular shapes that look like this alien spaceship, but it was the bar in the middle, and then all of these like booths around it. And then– it was this like totally crazy place. So we’re like, “Okay, we’ll come back in the morning.”
Um, hopefully before dawn– no cops, ya know? We’re hoping. You could hear dogs barking and —
So we come back in the morning, get ready, and we shoot the scene, and like, we’re having sex and she’s like– “I hear something, it sounds like footsteps.”
It’s coming from the direction that we came. So we like, get dressed, and like move– we couldn’t go back out the way we came because that’s where the footsteps are coming from, so we go deeper into the complex, and it’s huge! Like if you imagine, like, a whole hotel, like this hotel we’re in– every single room, everything is torn apart. Not one chair left, not one faucet left.
Rob: The refugees were complete.
Zak: Yeah! I mean like it has just been sitting there and they were ya know, trying to live. So, like, just like, it’s hard to imagine like, every single room trashed to this degree like it’s like way more than Silent Hill or anything like that it was like every room, nothing left. So we’re going in on this like old ruined carpet and after like 20 minutes I’m just like trying to get away from the footsteps. I’m like, “Okay, we have to get out of here.”
Like we can’t just go deeper and deeper in. And she’s like, “Alright.”
So we peek out, and it’s a fucking deer. (laughs)
Rob: Wow. Like a female deer, a doe?
Zak: Yeah a doe, a deer, a female deer. (Laughs)
Rob: Wow, that’s crazy.
Zak: yeah.
Rob: And so you guys were all scared for nothing, did you like laugh about it and have more sex afterward?
Zak: Yeah! Well I mean, yes. But–
Rob: In the place, or later? (Laughs)
Zak: I mean if I remember correctly we had sex there again.
Rob: Nice, nice, so that was for her website?
Zak: Yeah, because she was doing this series about having sex in different places, Like, Stoya around the world. So she was going to different places.
Rob: Around the world in 80 ways? I think it’s called.
Zak: Something like that.
Rob: It’s a good idea.
Zak: Yeah, I mean she wanted to do things on her own terms. You know, she’s done with doing like regular scenes. She was like, “I want things to be real.” You know, like her own thing.
Rob: Like an adventure.
Zak: Yeah, exactly, I mean it was.
Rob: Reality adventure.
Zak: We did a bunch of stuff like that, you know, we went to Athens, um, and you know we shot one in the presidential suite in the Palace Hotel over there.
Rob: Oh, you did two then? Okay.
Zak: I mean we did a bunch, the main one was the Haludovo because that was going to be the hard one. But the other ones were just like, you know we went to places that were going to be easy to get to from there, like (unintelligible)
Rob: Did she, don’t mean to sidetrack here, but did she get, uh, discovered in Philadelphia?
Zak: I don’t know exactly, and if she was on the east coast, I know she had bounced around different cities there but I’m not sure like which one was her–
Rob: Alright. So right now you’re based in L.A. and you’re painting out there– or you do some painting every now and then.
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Um, do you have a studio in the Hollywood area, or down at the beach, where are you?
Zak: Downtown, I mean I–
Rob: Downtown? Oh, the warehouse district?
Zak: Yeah, yeah. The arts district, yeah.
Rob: Big place, small place?
Zak: Yeah, I mean it’s like– a lot of artists– like I’ve never had a separate studio because I like to wake up and get reminded that my painting looks bad.
Rob: That’s what I figured, yeah, you have a live-work space, right?
Zak: Yeah. But a lot of people like to have a separate place, and but they’re always like– when I talk to them they’re always like, “Oh, I need to get into the studio more.” And I’m like, “I’m always in the studio.”
You know?
Rob: Uh-huh.
Zak: And also like, it’s good for shooting because it’s a big open loft. So it’s like it’s a big multi-space essentially you know if you want to take photos you know or–
Rob: I do, thanks! Is that an invitation?
Zak: I mean, I–
Rob: That would be awesome.
Zak: I mean I don’t turn down press I suppose.
Rob: Alright.
Zak: You know like when people come over it’s a good place to have a party, it’s good to you know– when my ex was camming, it’s a good place to cam. You know, it’s a big– we’re artists so–
Rob: I’ve shot there before, this one porn star when she was married to this one guy who was a fashion designer guy they had an upstairs, it was a really dingy place but it was like really cool, and it was like–
Zak: That’s downtown L.A.
Rob: It was like the old downtown warehouse district and I guess upstairs there was lofts and stuff and you’d go up this rickety old staircase and they had a corridor that goes in that looks like it was built in the 1920’s.
Zak: It’s not half as rickety as New York, but it’s the closest that L.A. gets, ya know?
Rob: Okay, so you started in New York, in Brooklyn–
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: And uh, nice.
Zak: But yeah I was doing paintings then, I got out of grad school and then started– you know, I was back in New York, and uh, I guess, I kinda moved from like girls who I knew in art school who were like pro doms and like, nude models, then moved from there to like girls who were strippers, and then the strippers knew the porn girls and so I started painting the porn girls. And then eventually, you know, I did a couple movies and then you meet more porn people and you know?
Rob: You mean with like your subjects for painting?
Zak: Yeah.
Rob: Awesome painting subjects, yeah.
Zak: yeah, but also it’s been interesting–
Rob: Working well?
Zak: yeah well the thing is– if you look at– I had my first show in 2002, and just the way that being naked on the internet, uh, was viewed then, and versus now. Like, how much it’s changed.
Rob: is there less stigma now?
Zak: I mean, yeah. But it’s also– less stigma, but just in terms of like the series, in the beginning, it was like, it was hard to find people, and they were very like– we both wanted to talk a lot first about what it was like, and it was kind of like a mystery. it was like a thing that was hidden, and there was less community, and uh, and less resources, and it was just like–
the series of paintings, of portraits and what they were about kind of changed because the world changed around them during that time. You know like– and now–
Rob: what year was that?
Zak: 2002 was my first show. So, like– nowadays it’s like not weird to have a– you know if you had said you were doing a painting series of porn stars, they’d be like, get in line, like who isn’t you know?
Rob: So funny. it’s true.
Zak: The first time I came to Suicide Girls. Uh, I was talking to the people at Suicide Girls. You know, Sean was like there’s a lot of people doing this but you’re good at it, you know? Like he liked me and he was kind of like, “Yeah, if you want to paint some of the girls, cool.”
And I eventually got a suicide girl in the MOMA, so that was kind of a — Suicide Girl painting, in their collection. So that was kind of a big deal for them. But it has been strange watching something like something that I was doing as a project for me turn into something that like everyone has fan art, they have 300 pictures of themselves.
Rob: Oh, right, it’s a whole fan art thing.
Zak: Now I’m a Disney Princess. Now I’m a frog. Now I’m a mermaid, you know? Like, it’s normal. And so when you write to somebody that you don’t know and you’re like, “Hey, I want to do a painting of you.” They’re like, “Phfff, go ahead.”
Rob: You know, you’re right the whole Stormy Daniels thing would have been such a scandal like 20 years ago, and now it’s not really a scandal.
Zak: Or, I mean it might not– part of it is that and part of it is just that like, there is nothing about Donald Trump that is not a scandal.
Rob: Right! I mean it’s like, his wife was an ex-nude model, you know and it’s like– everything has gotten so mainstream and porn is EVERYWHERE. And the youtube is having to make that AV law, age verification law, to make it impossible to access online content that is not behind a paywall, without– the way I understand it the law reads– they’re going to make it, even like the samples, you have to do a 3 step verification, you have to send in an I.D., you have to give them a credit card, which is to I.D. your name, and you have to– I don’t know, swear on a holy bible that you’re over 18 or something. But it’s like–
Zak: England doesn’t need more blue laws. I mean it’s already such a messed up place. laughs
Rob: But they’re doing that! So that will affect the big tube sites and then it will carry on down to everyone else, so hopefully, maybe they are saying that the smaller sites will be able to make more money now because of– anyways getting back to what we were saying about your subject matter, um– great! I’m not familiar with your movies, I haven’t seen your paintings yet, but I would like to, and uh, maybe we could do like a profile on you in Reviewer Magazine, an artist profile. An erotic art profile.
Zak: Cool.
Rob: Um, I didn’t mean to cut you off when you were talking about Stoya, is there anything you would like to add about your friend Stoya and what she’s doing now with her projects?
Zak: Nah I mean, She can speak for herself if you have any specific questions.
Rob: Absolutely. Of course.
But you’re here at the Hard Rock Casino doing a story for a magazine on art, do you want to talk a little bit about that, or about porn?
Zak: Yeah, I mean I write for– I write a column for an art magazine that is like the big art magazine in L.A. and so they– I was talking to them about doing something about the AVN’s because I’ve already done AVN like as AVN, like I wrote a book about (unintelligible) porn.
Rob: You did?
Zak: Yeah, so I’m thinking about like–
Rob: What’s it called?
Zak: We did porn. Um–
Rob: Under your stage name or your real name?
Zak: I think it says “Zak Smith” and then in parenthesis, Zak Sabbath.
Rob: Ok. I’ll look it up.
Zak: It’s like one of those books that a lot of girls that are just like first getting into the industry– they are like, “Oh, I liked your book! It was–” You know?
Rob: Mhm.
Zak: So that’s nice, because it’s people who have– who are actually in porn, like it and get it, and that was important to me. Because I haven’t had a normal experience in porn, you know, like I had–
Rob: How so?
Zak: Well I mean I was never a full time dude, ya know like I never– I didn’t come out of school and not know what to do with my life and go do porn– like I was a well-known painter making rent just fine when I did my first movie so– I had an atyipcal experience, but you’re represnting other people– so I didn’t want to– even things like this make me a little nervous because I don’t want to act like I’m an expert but on the other hand I feel like– compared to a lot of people who have been in the industry like ten years, I don’t know shit, but at the same time like I feel like I have a perspective of what it’s like to not be in the industry– and be able to explain to people in a way that people find helpful, like– a year or two ago when there was the whole condoms in porn law and everbody in porn basically– 60 people or whatever, went up to Osha in Oakland and was explang how the condom law wasn’t actually that helpful to us and it wasn’t really great for performers, and it wasn’t really about the condoms it was about like the way their law was written which was really sloppy. So performer after performer got up and talked about it, but I got up there was like, “Listen, like my girlfriend at the time, like, every pre-existing condition she has is tattooed on my arm. Like nobody is more– like she’s chronically ill, ya know? Nobody is more worried about safety on set than she is. like she is somebody who like does less scenes and makes less money because of how she was worried about getting sick. And this law and the way that it’s written doesn’t help. The way the law was written it’s so sloppy that like– if you’re shooting in Hollywood, and you’re shooting a movie where anywhere in the movie it’s implied that Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan have sex– like even if it’s not explicit. If that happens, and then like Meg Ryan puts a cigarette in Tom Hanks mouth of feeds him some cake, then that’s technically– there’s sex in the movie or simulated sex and there’s penetration of an orifice with an object. That means that Tom Hanks has to wear a dental dam and goggles and all that.
Rob: I heard that they call that the mainstream movie exclusion clause or something like that.
Zak: well there was no clause! At least at the time when we were–, there was nothing like that, it was so sloppily written.
Rob: Oh, okay.
Zak: And I went to fucking Yale, I read the law. I read the text, I read the fucking, you know– I read the legal– I read the legal– the documents that the other documents were based on.
Rob: You went to Yale to read the law?
Zak: No, I went to– that’s where I–
Rob: You attended Yale?
Zak: Yeah, I was a grad student. Um, and so I got up there , and even though a lot of performers who were veterans like had said shit, I was like I looked at the (law making person?) and explained it like, “Here is the law that you wrote, here are the rules, here is like, the situation that we are in.”
Like, it says producer, “Do you know what a porn producer is? No one in this room knows what a porn producer is.”
A guy who says, “I want a video of you eating a chicken and masturbating, I’ll give you 75 bucks for that.”
Technically that guy is a porn producer. ya know like some random fan. A porn producer has to have your medical records for 50 years? So that means if somebody wanted to hire you to do a one-off video that you send to them only for them, a custom video, you have to give them your medical records complete and they have to hold them for 50 years. Like, the law was just not written– (unintelligible)
Rob: It’s not realistic.
Zak: Yeah, and I was up there like, I–
Rob: Was that intentional? Were they trying to be overly (unintelligible) to kill the porn industry? Or were they just being dumb dicks?
Zak: Um, it was a combination of both because the AIDS organization, the AIDS healthcare foundation– even within the HIV positive community, is not a well-respected organization. They’re kind of a– they’re opportunists, lke they’ve widely been kind of, uh, you know they’re in it for the grant money, they’re in it for the people who run it to sort of get status as you know important non-profit people and they don’t really seem to give a shit about the actual spread of aids, for example, the PrEP drug which is like very effective at preventing AIDS, and you like pop it and like you know– They wanna kill PrEP because that’s like a bold headline-grabbing stand that they can take, like, “It’s not condoms! Shouldn’t worry about!”
And it’s like, why not do both? Ya know like, we’re all making porn why isn’t PrEP necessary? Why isn’t PrEP a rule in porn? Like, we’rea ll having sex without condoms like we’re all getting tested once a month or– every few weeks, so why not take PrEP? because the AIDS healthcare foundation doesn’t give a shit, and so they and their lawyers wrote the law. Part of it was to become burdensome on porn and then they could grab headlines like, “AIDS healthcare foundation has kicked porn out of California! Now it’s only in Nevada.”
And part of it was because they weren’t really paying that much attention, and they didn’t think that we would take it on. And so, on the one hand, yeah I haven’t done as many films as a lot of people walking around this hotel. But on the other hand, I feel like because I have been spending so much time talking to the academic world, talking to fine art people, like just having a normal-er life in some ways, like, I can translate a little bit? And that kind of comes up.
Rob: And how did you get pulled into this tawdry business, what was your “entree”?
Zak: Like, the weirdest thing ever– I had done– Thomas Pynchon wrote a novel called Gravity’s Rainbow, and I did a picture for every single page of that novel because it was one of my favorite books, um, So I drew a picture for every page of Gravity’s Rainbow, and then a little bit after, because I was also doing these portraits of porn people– I was interviewing some porn people and talking about it, and then a year later- this guy I never met, I just did a phone interview, um, he said you know, “It would be mean a lot to me if I could use those pictures in a movie because I love that book, and I want to make an autobiography porn movie.”
This was like the early 2000’s when there was like a lot of sort of arty porn before the big internet crash killed everything ya know? But the big companies like Larry Flynt and VIvid and VCA were just throwing away– out money on weird movies, ya know during the early 2002-3-4-5. And So this guy was like, “Yeah, I want to make an arty autobiographical porn, and I want to include those pictures.”
And I was like, “Sure.”
And I said, “And it would mean a lot to me if I could fuck all of the girls in the movie.”
And he was like, “Ha-ha!”
“Well I mean send me pictures, ya know, like I kinda need a punk for the thing, because ya know, I don’t wanna use this other dude”
-Who’s the only other guy in the industry who had that weird hair.”
So I sent him pictures and he was like, “Yeah, your hired.”
And so, I did that first movie called Barbwire Kiss and then, you know, at that point some of the girls were like. “Oh, Zak is talent now.”
and so I got hired on some more stuff. Guys always fall into porn ass-backward, it’s always some kind of joke.
Rob: Oh really, how so?
Zak: yeah, it always starts with somebody being like, “Hey! What if I did that?”
And then somebody’s like, “Sure?”
Ya know?
Rob: Hmm. Well, um, I appreciate the uh, the fact that you have been so open with Reviewer magazine, thank you Zak, and uh looking forward to seeing more of your work, when I’m in L.A. I’ like to check out your paintings and stuff and um–
Zak: If you want to see the originals most of them are in New York in my gallery, so if you get to New York then there ya go.
Rob: In your gallery?!
Zak: the gallery that represents me. I don’t own it.
Rob: One day, one day.
Nice. Nice, nice, nice. Good. Thank you, thank you very much.
Zak: No problem.
Rob: And yeah, we’ll talk again soon.
Zak: alright, sweet.
